Failed models. Wrong predictions. Egg on face. Not the least of whom are those who claimed COVID-19 would prove no different than the seasonal flu.
How to save face? Damage control now is to put authority against faith. Such men have always distinguished themselves from reasonable men, but they usually danced with snakes rather than viruses.
Will these dominionists at least be consistent and join the faith healing crowd? 
Every time I talked about Wilson in the PCAâand anywhere else, for that matterâit was necessary to make clarifications. âI appreciate his books on sexuality and his cultural analysis, but heâs departed from reformed orthodoxy on doctrines like visible/invisible church, liturgy, presumptive regeneration, paedocommunion, polityâŚâ. Even to mention Wilson in a positive light in the PCA was to shoot myself in the foot, but I thought the cost worth it to promote his voice on sexuality.
I spent three years as a member and pastoral intern at Jeff Meyersâ church in St. Louis (Meyers is the man responsible for the novel covenant renewal worship service; Iâd say heâs Wilsonâs guru on worship, particularly paedocommunion). So, itâs not from a lack of trying or knowledge, or from lobbing stones at a distance, or not being able to play nice that the divisions exist. They have always existed, and theyâve been stated again and again. This is evident on the old BaylyBlog, where many writers were critical of Wilsonâs Federal Vision (and all that involves) and paedocommunion even while shouting to the world that his voice was needed on sexuality, child-rearing, marriage.
Over the years weâve witnessed Wilsonâs attempts at repentance, drawing that distinction between Oatmeal Stout and Amber Ale Federal Vision (have I gotten the right beers?), framing himself as more of an evangelical, having collegial disagreements with Peter Leithart. Yet, it always seems to fall short of full-blooded repentanceâas if doctrine is a casual sport.
So, perhaps you feel my tension. Iâve been compelled to promote and denounce Wilsonâs et al.'s views. The promotion has led some to my church who desired a conservative church in the area. Thatâs been a mixed bagâŚright from the start.
Just before the outset of my tenure at Trinity, the Examination Committee of Calvary Presbytery booted me out of the room of my transfer exam so they could warn the session of my associations (even though I had been careful to distance myself from the spurious doctrines he supported). It led to the immediate resignation of one elder, the fierce opposition of two others, and the skepticism or confusion of the rest.
And then the latest of Wilsonâs immodest positionsâfacemasks as a confession of faith / statist idolatryâwhich has led to tension in my church. Though our session did not mandate facemasks (we did not have an order from the governor of SC to do so), the fact that I didnât take Wilsonâs position, and that I exhorted our congregation to submit to governing authorities as I preached through 1 Peter, caused tension. I think it is safe to say this contributed to three families leaving our church.
So, the costs have continued to pile up as I have promoted the association to gain a friend on sexuality. Has this been wise, particularly now as his influence increases and his grievous error on paedocommunion (which I believe is fundamentally a repudiation of church discipline) will proliferate?
At the end of the day, I wonder which should be more determinative of our stance: Should we support a gifted (less so recently) co-belligerent in the public square or should we oppose an opponent in the reformation of the church, her worship, and her discipline? A choice between those two, I know how I go (and it seems to be a lonely road).
You say chew the meat and spit out the bones. Been doing that for a long time, brother. Not sure itâs tenable or wise.
Dear Andrew,
I appreciate your response and while I disagree with your conclusion I respect your right to associate with whom you will. Pastor Wilson has been more of a blessing to me than a hindrance. Our church lost a family through all this too and funny enough it was our relationship both to Moscow and Bloomington that was the excuse given. I understand you are done bearing the reproach of Pastor Doug. I will continue to bear the reproach of both of them.
I can point out the flaws of my fathers in the faith while honoring them. Iâve definitely gained more than I have lost from Pastor Wilson or Pastor Bayly. This division has put in more work for me but itâs been good. Iâve been able to teach on the catholicity of the church, honoring fathers, wounds of friends being faithful, loving the church, standing in Christ alone.
So count me in for honest critique and fighting for the faith. Count me out for considering brothers enemies. Love you
Doug Wilson is the Donald Trump of the Reformed world. Heâs a polarizing figure who says some crazy things and has odd associations, and yet has also managed to make all the right people mad. Heâs not the ideal man you want, but heâs the fighter you need.
Joe Sobran had troublesome associations. He had off the wall beliefs like anarcho capitalism. He was unceremoniously fired by fax by Bill Buckley. He was a devotee of the Latin Mass. I love him because he was a fighter and he made the right people mad. All the respectable conservatives wanted nothing to do with him, but Sobran was committed to truth more than fashions.
If I have to pick between a man who fights like Joe Sobran or a man who fights like Bill Buckley Iâm going with Joe Sobran every time. Iâm doing that even though I have significant disagreements with Joe Sobran and Doug Wilson. My views of civil government were shaped by Joe Sobran to a large degree, larger than I was aware of until the Covid controversies hit. The presuppositions of Sobran are shared by Doug Wilson and his associates. Thereâs a lot of overlap there. I have had to learn that many things I have assumed and believed and absorbed over the years are wrong and unbiblical. And yet, I still love Joe Sobran and Doug Wilson.
The same love for men who fight and men who get fired by fax drives me to love the Warhorn men, but itâs more than just disembodied brain stuff with you men. Joseph Bayly and Tim Bayly in particular have pastorally cared for me and my family during very difficult times. The help Iâve received from you men is incalculable and I will never be able to repay it. I would never dream of separating myself from you men over stupid masks or a stupid virus.
Iâll end on a lighter note. I love you men but there was part of me that wondered if I was becoming too much of a sycophant for you guys. I wondered sometimes if I agreed with you too much. Now I donât have to worry about that anymore! Smile.
Love you men.
That should be on the header of Blog & Mablog.
Idaho Man Bad
Dear Joseph, inquiring minds want you to be specific. What conclusion of Andrew do you disagree with? Do you reject his denial of Doug and Tobyâs teaching that masks are a sacrament and idolatry? That people should leave their church rather than wear them? That elders engage in idolatry by requiring them? Or is it Andrewâs non-mask conclusions you disagree with? That through the years Doug has âdeparted from reformed orthodoxy on doctrines like visible/invisible church, liturgy, presumptive regeneration, paedocommunion, polity?â
Or is it merely that you donât âfeel (his) tension?â
Dear brother, deal with the specifics. Donât hide behind something like, âI respect Andrew and I respect Doug but while itâs Dougâs doctrinal errors I condemn, itâs Andrewâs conclusions that Dougâs errors are cumulative and serious that I disagree with.â Among men of principle, truth trumps affection and relationships. Witness the Apostle Paul with the Apostle Peter.
Dear Tim,
Dear Joseph, inquiring minds want you to be specific. What conclusion of Andrew do you disagree with?
I was referring to his conclusion.
It seemed to me Andrew is recommending going beyond articles opposing Dougâs position on masks to disassociating with them altogether. I said I was fine with making those criticisms and you all opposing him on these issues but not ok with considering Doug an enemy.
As to your specific questions it might be helpful to answer them.
I believe masks can be idolatry and are for many. A thing can be an idol for one person but not for another. For example, we make idols of good things all the time. Yet one man may use these things without them being idolatry. It seems to me that Doug and Toby have made some attempts at making that distinction. The truth is Tim you live in a bubble. By that I mean what the Lord has built in Bloomington, most people long for in their church. Its a great blessing whenever I attend. But its atypical in my experience. Most churches including reformed churches in the US are in pitiful shape. There are far more churches just shutting down and doing everything the civil magistrates say without question than there are churches railing against it. The churches doing a John MacArthur are rare. There is a couple who live in my neighborhood whose church hasnât met in months. Their leaders havenât questioned the thing once. They havenât even communicated to their sheep that they are struggling with what to do. I get messages constantly from men wondering what to do. Their church shut down and their elders wonât even talk with them about it. Or they have required everyone wear a mask without explanation or willingness to talk about at all leaving people who are struggling with this without answers, people mind you who donât listen to Doug Wilson. My father who doesnât even know who Doug Wilson is and is a SBC pastor has people in his church freaking out over other people not wearing masks. My dad, who has never been a rebel in his entire life, doesnât read blogs or listen to podcasts, is exasperated by the civil government on Covid and more so by people who have made an idol out masks. There are people, a whole lot of them making it into idols. Now did Doug and Toby over speak at times. I am sure they have. But Tim you do the same often in your facebook messages and tweets. I often read you as being hyperbolic or exaggerated not knowing whether you intend that or not. But because I love you and I trust you Iâm willing to read you charitably. I constantly have people messaging me asking what you mean in your posts and I honor you with them and nuance what you say. You donât know how much work you have created for me these last few months. So what am I saying? I am saying I am willing to read Doug and Toby the same way. I know Andrew didnât like it but I always chew the meat and spit out the bones.
Now, should people leave their church over masks? Iâd give a similar answer as Doug. I would say masks in and of themselves are a stupid reason to divide. If you have a church where you are plugged in and are being fed and your elders have been trustworthy men, then just wear the stupid mask or see if they are willing to work with you in some way. In my opinion, a good elder will find a way to work with his sheep. Either he will sit down with him and attempt to convince him the importance of the masks or he will find some way to accommodate him. So my advice is donât leave your church over a mask. But if you have been at a church where there has been no pastoral care, no preaching of hard truths, and you were already struggling to hang on, well I donât see why it would be wrong for you to find a church that isnât masked up and may fit you better. In other words for many, this is the last straw. Its a stupid straw but once the back is broken it doesnât matter how stupid that last straw was. Even then I would have the person go back and end their membership well before moving on. Donât burn your bridge.
I get this. Yet in my opinion there are some things that donât rise to the level of importance, masks being one of them, that they require us to now consider a brother an enemy. We have known Dougâs position on the Lordâs supper for years and yet we even debated joining the CREC at one point instead of or in addition to forming the Presbytery. I would also argue that among men of principle, affection and truth would dictate long suffering before throwing away relationships. I have recommended and still do, that you and Doug have a discussion on this publicly. Selfishly, I would really benefit from watching two men I respect having a strong discussion. I know others would too. So I donât know why you wouldnât be willing to do so especially with someone you call friend. Even Paul opposed Peter to his face.
Again I come back around to this, if this is about public criticism and even strong rebuke of a brother I am on board with that. If this is however meant to divide from a brother and now consider them enemies, I am not on board. Which is it?
That depends on whether they continue to insist that the local session has less authority over the church building and the people in it than Kroger.
Nobody who has been upset with us for confronting these men has been willing to defend what they actually say: See if they will work with you, but do not submit to them.
Right. Got that far and Iâm done.
Love,
What I mean is that what you have at Bloomington many people long for. Its awesome. I am always encouraged by being there. So I didnât mean to insult you or belittle you.
Thatâs an incredible change of meaning.
Its what I mean by it. I apologize that it was unclear or came across as an attack. I will edit the post for clarity sake.
This sort of statement makes me think it is Joseph Spurgeon who lives in a bubble.
I am quite familiar with two Reformed churches in two different states. Following the requirements of the government and the landlord, one church is meeting outside with the congregation spaced apart, wearing masks, and singing softly. Everyone who wants to attend can attend, but the service is still streamed for members who stay at home due to real or perceived health risks. The other church meets inside with the congregation spaced apart and wearing masks with streaming available for those who think it is better to stay home. Some members and elders think masks are a good idea, and other members and elders think they are a useless hassle, but I donât know anyone who treats masks as an idol. Beyond bare assertion, is there any concrete evidence that people are making idols out of masks?
Dear Joseph,
There are times when, for the sake of souls, Pauls and Barnabases should depart company when a strong disagreement arises. Reconciliation may come but only after quite a bit of work and repentance. But not all divisions are unprofitable and not all divisions imply you consider the other an enemy.
2Th. 3:14 If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame. 15 Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
We have been critical of many of Wilsonâs views, particularly as they have been schismatic in Reformed churches. When I have visitors from two places, I know they will seldom become members at my church: the PCA and the CREC. PCA folks donât because they expect a soft bed of antinomianism; CREC folks, because their children canât commune before genuine profession of faith, we have non-homeschoolers, we have bylaws that allow people to conceal carry only if they receive explicit permission from the session, we use a variety of instruments and styles in our worship music, our liturgy is low (not really but thatâs how they see it), and I have no idea how to work âsalvation by the faithfulness of Jesus Christâ into every sermon. In other words, facemasks is merely the latest in a string of strident positions that lead to pride in folks in orbit with Moscow.
What I was doing in my post was questioning whether Iâve been wise to overlook so much for the sake of having an advocate of father-rule/sexuality. Now, I even question the utility in that area because of what seems to be a hyper-patriarchal denial of the authority of church/presbytery/civil fathers.
So, more is at stake here than relationships, and I hope we will see that for the sake of the souls for which we will give an account.
Love,
Andrew
I had an experience this weekend out in a National Forest in my state. I was a bare few miles from a wilderness area where even bicycles are prohibited, and a good 3.5-4 hour drive from any kind of metro area. I was loading my car along a dirt road when a car passed by. The car contained three people, and all of them were wearing surgical-style masks. Why would people choose to wear masks in a car together in the middle of nowhere? I donât know their hearts or their situation, but that seems like itâs treading awfully close to idolatry: The belief that the mask will protect them from illness irrespective of any efficacy of the mask at filtering out a virus over a matter of hours in a car with other people.
I had another experience a month or so ago where someone on a local/neighborhood app I use was ranting and raving because the owner of a local hardware store stood to close to her without a mask while he helped her pick out an item at his store. Perhaps this was irresponsible, but her response of coming online to try to ruin his livelihood seemed all out-of-proportion to the alleged offense in question. (The tone of her post was, âDonât shop at Bobâs Hardware Store: Youâre gonna die.â) Again, I wonder how much a mask would have even helped in such a situation, and perhaps the belief in the mask was idolatrous.
Idolatry is an easy charge to make but a hard one to prove. As someone else has pointed out up-thread, lots of good things can become idols, and it takes a lot of pastoral care and insight to sort out whatâs what. âKaiser kuriosâ has rather gone out of fashion.
Ranting and raving on the internet is pretty frequent these days, so Iâd say masks arenât the main issue there. And if people in a car are misinformed about the effectiveness of masks on a long trip or err unduly on the side of safety, is that really idolatry?
Iâd define idolatry as when something good is unlawfully sacrificed in service of an idol. For example, a man might neglect his fatherly responsibilities in order to work longer hours and further his career. In this case, career has become an idol. But what are people wearing masks in a car sacrificing, aside from their own convenience? It seems the idolatry is on the other side, when church unity and authority is sacrificed in the service of anti-statism.
Joseph,
The âbubbleâ as you call it, was certainly a gift from God, but donât think that the presentation of this gift came sans years of work, suffering, mourning, constant and malicious opposition of the most personal nature, along with pleadings day and night, house to house, with tears.
Furthermore, it requires constant maintenance through both discipline and defense.
The post that this thread grows from is more of that very maintenance applied more broadly. The principles apply universally in the care of Godâs flock.
Brother, Iâm not sure you know Tim Bayly at all.
I donât know if the people in my stories are idolaters, but their behavior related to masks is decidedly weird. If they were sheep in my care, Iâd want to ask them some questions.
And just because something can be idolatry on one side of an issue doesnât mean that it canât be idolatry on the other side of an issue also.
Pastor Tim,
Your latest post on Facebook was a comfort to me. Thank you.