Then Comes What // Water is thicker than blood

New Warhorn Media post by Nathan Alberson:


This was a great one. I passed it along to my small group.


“So is patriarchy good?”
Tim Bayly: “It doesn’t matter if it’s good or not, it’s the way that God’s ordered the world.”

Wait, run that by me again? How can God-given order be anything other than good?

I think I know what he means, but I can’t be sure.


Yes, patriarchy is very good. Tim has said this many times. Tim was making a rhetorical point, which is something along the lines of “shut up and stop complaining about the way God made the world!!!” :innocent:


I would add that it isn’t up to us to approve or disapprove God’s work. We just need to repent and believe.


Thanks guys. It was an odd turn of phrase, and I thought that’s probably what he meant, but it just seemed like such a clash.

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I’m confused. I thought I’d read somewhere that Tim doesn’t like the term patriarchy, had never described himself as being patriarchal, and disavows the term, preferring father rule. Can someone (preferably Tim) provide clarification?


I don’t remember that, but fwiw, patriarchy literally means “father-rule.” Hard to pit them against each other, except for two things.

  1. inevitable baggage today of this third definition of patriarchy from

    a social system in which power is held by men, through cultural norms and customs that favor men and withhold opportunity from women

  2. common ignorance of the meaning of the word.

Both of those seem like good reasons to use “father-rule.”

Yes, generally I’ve avoided “patriarchy” despite it’s perfect representation of all God’s creation. I believe in God the Father Almighty…

But Joseph pointed out the liabilities. Speech is often incoherent if we don’t take into account the new and perverse meanings assigned to old, good words—“gay,” for instance.

Concerning the “it doesn’t matter if it’s good” declaration, it was meant to jolt us out of our incessant weighing of what God has made and spoken. Isn’t there much Scripture telling us our judgments are worthless? What do we know of wisdom? What do we know of fairness? What do we know of truth? What do we know of righteousness? Of sin? Even (and maybe especially) of our own sin? Much of the work of the pastor consists of seeking to disengage souls from trusting their own judgments, turning instead to God’s Word.

If the father and mother don’t say some such thing to their children while raising them, their children don’t know the world God made. My mother used to respond to my “why?” given in response to her command with “because I said so.” Love,


10 posts were merged into an existing topic: A bunch of ruckus