New Warhorn Media post by David Bayly:
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This is a fantastic summary. Short. Helpful. Wise. Very thankful for it.
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Thanks much for this, David.
Love,
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This is something I have been saying about the PCA for years, no one brings charges against the unbiblical overtures. AS long as they don’t, the progressives will continue to work to wear down the faithful, until they get their way.
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Here’s how they have ruled so far (in Bills & Overtures Committee):
Recommends affirming Overture 4 (and 22) (Nashville Statement) 74-53-1
Recommends affirming Overture 11 (RPCNA Report) 97-24-4
Recommends ruling out of order Overture 35 (reaffirm previous PCA statements)
Recommends ruling out of order Overture 39 (reaffirm previous PCA statements) 116-5-2
Nothing on MOP’s request for Study Committee at this point.
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Can any PCA pastor at General Assembly bring charges? Perhaps is uncouth to say so, but I saw pictures of CR Wiley at GA, why wouldn’t or couldn’t he follow this helpful advice? I’m sure there are others too who are capable men at GA…I’m not expecting him to be the salvation of the PCA, I’m just trying to understand.
There is no way to bring charges at GA…that work needs to happen at the presbytery level. What could be done from the floor of GA is a personal resolution asking for an investigation of MOP or CTS. Two presbyteries could also ask for an appeal of the decision of MOP in their Revoice Report…and the Standing Judicial Commission would take it up…not too much effect, I think.
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And the Westminster Presbytery affirmations and denials have now taken a backseat to the weak Nashville Statement…
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I understood the recommendation to be simply to stand up at GA and speak God’s truth with boldness, calling the denomination to repentance. This language in particular:
No such thing exists except to speak publicly against it, which is precisely what the post does.
Moving a commissioner’s resolution would provide that opportunity in supporting speech. CR should demand investigation of Covenant Theological Seminary curriculum on sexuality specifying investigation must include public appeal to alumni to send in class notes on what profs said. If they did so, those notes would be appalling when it was a conservative student who was listening and writing the stuff down.
Well is anyone surprised.
Curious as to the silence on this woke victory within the PCA. Did anyone read the Decision on Complaint?
2020-12-Speck-Decision-on-Complaint-10.21.2021-1.pdf (320.8 KB)
I know you all wouldn’t be surprised, but the silence…a lot of pixels were spilled on this topic, until COVID.
I think we will now see much more of “PINO” - PCA In Name Only.
This will take a couple of forms. First, the godly churches, even if they don’t leave the PCA, will simply ignore just about everything that comes out of their local Presbytery, never mind GA, and get on and do their own thing. Second, so will the liberal churches, more inclined than ever before to push the boundaries in the wrong direction. In both cases, though, they will rely on the “spirit of the age” which in this instance will mean that people still commit to the individual church they belong to - but the wider movement or tradition of which that church is a part is another matter.
I can see a situation where local PCA churches will make common cause with other local churches “with whom they can do business”, and pretty well ignore the other PCAs in the “neighbourhood”.
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Ken, the result is boringly normal for the PCA. There was little to no chance the SJC, stacked with company men, would side against Missouri Presbytery and her Covenant Theological Seminary. Our work on Revoice is still there condemning its wickedness and the PCA for becoming a safe place for effeminates.
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I grew up in the Christian Reformed Church (CRC) and am currently a member of a church that originated as a CRC Church plant, although never officially part of the denomination, and this is exactly what has happened in the CRC back in the 90s and early 00s. The divide is mostly found between small town/rural (generally conservative) and city/urban areas (generally liberal or liberal leaning).
Co-exisiting works for a while, but the biggest problem is the seminaries are run by the liberals (looking at you Calvin) and so the pastors are almost inevitably more liberal than the congregations in conservative churches. Therefore, the pastor just doesn’t preach on certain topics or issues, and let’s the culture do the training. I can’t tell you the number of people I grew up with who never heard a sermon that came close to explaining why that church only had male office holders. Then, when they hit their early twenties, they suddenly “realized” how sexist the church is.
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I do agree, but I think an analysis of their report would be helpful especially to those who might think the matter is closed.
Hey, this is my life right now. On a different thread I commented on my recent experience at presbytery, in which a new set of bylaws was passed that hugely empowered the Moderator and the presbytery Administration Commission.
The latest development is that my pastor heard through the grapevine that the new Admin Commission had already lined up someone to replace him as Chair of the Candidates and Credentials Committee. Subsequently, someone from the Admin Commission contacted my pastor to directly inform him of their decision, explaining that they wanted to take the C&C Committee in an (unspecified) new direction. There might be a good reason to replace my pastor as Chair of C&C – he had served for many years, and it could be worthwhile to give a younger man the opportunity to gain experience in this area – but there are other possible reasons, which I will leave for the reader to consider. At any rate, it seems discourteous not to involve my pastor in this sort of decision from the beginning, but this is not the first time he has been presented with a fait accompli by one of the big players in the presbytery.
The new Bylaws urge all churches give 3% of their budget for church planting within the presbytery. Our Session decided to wait and see exactly what sort of work was going to be supported by this before giving anything ourselves. Are we now no longer good Presbyterians, since we aren’t submitting to the will of the brothers? I think not – what is happening now is power plays, not collegiality. The new Bylaws were developed at a meeting in which the TEs “forgot” to invite the REs on the committee (one of whom was from my church). Rather than doing whatever could be done to remedy this oversight, the TEs rebuffed attempts from one RE, who had long experience with non-profit financial and legal issues, to offer input on the Bylaws.
What now? As @Hobbit says, we can do our own thing and ignore the rest of the presbytery. But what is the point of being part of a presbytery when one does not share its vision? No decisions have been made yet, but the topic has been broached.
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In the case of a deceptive presbytery, noncompliance is necessary.
Another new development in my presbytery – the next stated meeting will occur on a Wednesday morning. Needless to say, that’s going to move the presbytery even more towards being a TE club. REs gum up the works, I guess.
Also, looking at the new presbytery bylaws, I see that it is explicitly stated that the Ordination Team (what used to be called the Candidates and Credentials Committee) is “encouraged to use its time on the floor expeditiously.” Even though the new bylaws were substantially shortened from the old bylaws, space was found for this phrase. I will leave it to the reader to consider reasons why such an instruction to this particular committee was considered important enough to inscribe into the bylaws.
Fundamentally, it looks like the majority of TEs in the presbytery are disinterested in rolling up their sleeves and doing the dirty work of the church. It’s not that they are all progressive and onboard with Revoice, but they are unwilling to engage in the long and grueling toil and conflict it would take to oppose the progressive tide. And instead of standing up for what is fair and right, they find it easier to look the other way when corners are cut and sheep are run over for the sake of helping out a TE.
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