Yeah that’s why I’m not a fan of where this leads. At that point you’re talking about building another country, and where that leads…
Along the lines of a potential great “banning”, is there a link to a zip file of good books, media, sermons, etc that one could put on a USB drive for easy travel?
We won’t share a country with these people indefinitely. It’s an inherently unstable situation. Andrew Torba (the guy who built Gab, an alternative to Twitter) has been driven so far out of the financial system that neither he nor his wife are permitted to hold personal Visa cards. They are turning him into Iran.
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The Puritan Hard Drive exists. You’ll have to pay $900 but they’d be yours and there are 12,500 of resources.
Oh man. You’ve made me gnash my teeth. That thing makes me so angry. I’d be very surprised if there is anything on that Puritan hard drive that isn’t freely available elsewhere. And I would also be very surprised if the sellers of that hard drive have done anything except collect the documents and put them in one place.
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Haha! I’ve never looked into beyond knowing that it exists. Sorry to have caused gnashing, it’s hard on the teeth.
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Guess we need to launch Warhorn Classics! Thinking 2021 is the year. 
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I’ll be contrarian and disagree with the consensus, while still allowing for the weakness of certain brethren and their liberty to decide for themselves. Pastor Tim’s FB wall is anything but an echo chamber. He draws hecklers and whatabouters and all sorts nearly every other day, it seems. Is every reply a flame war? I don’t think so. Do flame wars happen? Sure. So what? Leave and don’t engage at all? 1 Corinthians 5:9-10. The book industry is flooded with crap fiction, romance, and self-help; therefore, Christians should generally stay out of printing books? I don’t think so. If you can be profitable and profit, use it; if not, don’t (1 Corinthians 10:23). The abuse of a thing does not negate its proper use, else we drop all shepherds because of wolves. Filter schmilter. You can go down to Walmart and buy a new smartphone for ~$100 if you want to bypass things. Sin is cheap. Awakening and training your conscience according to God’s Word? Fearing and obeying him? Sitting under preaching that has something more to say than vague gospel generalities from a man who knows and loves you? Now that might do some real good, and it might cost you. It will definitely cost him.
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That’s good pushback. I’m going to attempt to write something about filters. I don’t think Lucas or I have communicated much about that, and I think there are important points we were taking for granted above that you are missing.
As to social media in general, regardless of whether or not I or my father should be on FB or Twitter, I’m increasingly convinced that the church is harmed overall by the practically universal membership on FB.
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At the risk of starting a flame war, could bans of Christians and conservatives from social media be a blessing in disguise?
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Perhaps. I was just think that now that parler is gone, where would I go? And your comment made me think, maybe nowhere is best!
This is getting more serious by the hour.
Ben, I think it’s less a matter of “should Christians be on social media” and more a matter of “what room is there in American culture for Christians.”
We are at this very moment rapidly sliding down a very slippery slope, and it is not clear to me that there is any kind of obvious Schelling point where this stops.
If I’m not mistaken, every single Parler user has been doxxed as of a day or so ago. How many will lose jobs or marriages over this?
And yes, at the moment the focus is on “Trump supporters,” not “Christians,” but our blood enemies recognize no difference between our brand of Christianity and Trumpism.
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Precisely.
And yes, many of the same people are using the words “security researchers” to describe those who hacked Parler and not only released deleted posts, but private posts and real life identities, I believe.
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Yes, it could be a blessing in disguise in a similar way that the Jerusalem persecution was a blessing in disguise.
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I’ll add to the “amen” here. I’ve often said, when a high-profile pastor/evangelical falls, “What they think of one of us, they think of all of us”. There are no lines of distinction drawn, both out of the hardness of rebellion and the fact that such distinctions are spiritually discerned (1 Corinthians 2:14). May God have mercy.
I’m very happy for a contrarian position around here. That’s what this place is for: iron sharpening iron.
The issue is not whether Christian pastors like Tim should be posting publicly to as wide an audience as possible. We must do that. The issue is whether we should do it in Facebook’s living room. I think it’s dangerous for us to rely so heavily on FB because I think FB is, basically, an enemy of the church. And they not only have the ability to turn us off whenever they want to, they also control who sees what you post in the first place.
The second point you raise is about filters, and you are very dismissive of them. I don’t think you should be.
The Pharisees didn’t get along with Jesus because they were more interested in the appearance of holiness than the real thing. And Pharisees, then or now, are always threatened by actual holiness. So I understand why Christians are sensitive about putting up external barriers to sin - does that mean you are unwilling to address the heart of the matter?
But doing sensible external things to avoid danger is not necessarily in conflict with dealing with the heart. I think a good analogy for what I’m talking about is is the parapet mentioned in Deuteronomy 22:8. If you built a new house, and you didn’t put a parapet on your roof, you’re guilty of bloodshed if someone falls off.
I think the internet is analogous to that. The point is not to remove all danger, or to be hyper focused on externals. The point is to regain some sanity.
I think if you’re inclined to be dismissive of my digital parapet, you haven’t thought carefully about the information environment in which we now live. There is something new about our digital age.
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I fail to see how 1 and 2 comport. FB gives you a very wide audience. One can make full use—profitable use, we might say—of FB without heavily relying on it, yes? The world is the enemy of the church, as is the dominant culture, yes? Why not also retreat there? I don’t think this approach stands brother. Look at the Lord with the Pharisees. He taught openly among snakes and vipers knowing full well they were always trying to trap him. They also controlled what the people saw and “posted” (Matthew 28:12-15). Enmity between the righteous and the wicked is basic to Christianity and implies constant conflict and warfare. We should follow David, who ran to the enemy with humble zeal for the Lord, and used the wicked’s tools against him (1 Samuel 17:51). Really, David is just being like the Lord Jesus here (Hebrews 2:14-15). The Apostles and Paul in particular continue the pattern; they enter into conflict, they don’t shrink back. Jonathan and his armor-bearer were idiots. Or were they? I don’t think retreat is the answer. Granted, repositioning may be necessary, regathering oneself, etc., and dealing with our own sins. But we ought to take the sword and go to war/support others as they do so. This forum is a testimony to that.
I’m not denying difficulty, the need to guard oneself, or the validity of case-by-case considerations and Christian liberty. My wife got rid of her FB some time ago; it was a stumbling block to her. I have tailored mine to be profitable and use it to make connections, while still checking myself. She does the same with instagram. I also don’t wholly dismiss filters brother. We have used covenant eyes for years. But I know my own heart, and I know from conversation with other brothers—it’s just a guard rail, you can get out of the car and hop over if you truly want to. Use it, sure, if it’s profitable. But the best filter is the conscience trained and sensitive to the Word of God, the bonds of love with the brethren, and a shepherd(s) who knows and loves you. That’s what the sheep need. That’s what I need. I know from my own dumb wandering.
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I think we agree, mostly. I don’t think it’s time to retreat at all. As I said, I think we should be speaking as loudly and as publicly and as often as possible. But we simply must not be content for FB to be our only, or even our most significant, outlet.
I had a conversation today where ebooks on Amazon Kindle came up. I think using an Amazon Kindle to read books is analogous to using Facebook as a public square in at least one way: both of these insanely wealthy and powerful companies provide products that are wonderfully convenient to use, but it comes at the cost of them having the power to pull the rug out from under you at any time. In the case of Amazon, they can remove the book you purchased from your Kindle at any time, and in the case of Facebook, they can ban or shadow ban you at any time for any reason.
So go ahead and use your FB account or Amazon Kindle, but just remember to hold what you have there lightly.
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I believe Amazon can update the book itself at any time also. That’s great if they are fixing typos or if you get a second edition of the book for free. But one needs very little imagination this week to think of some downsides.
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