Formal equivalency; italicized words of "clarity"

Since we don’t truly know how יהוה was pronounced, I have a hard time not thinking that writing “Yahweh” throughout the OT isn’t straightforwardly, presumptuously adding to the Scriptures. God inspired the text in Hebrew, without vowels, and has providentially hidden the knowledge of the vowels from us for now. Personally, refusing to honor that absence strikes me as a betrayal of formal equivalence, in favor of (what I’m inclined to, uncharitably, read as) a conservative-academic boast of formal equivalence: “Look! We are so committed to giving you the literal meaning of the text that we are bold enough to break an ancient norm by transliterating the Tetragrammaton!”

Interesting to note is that some of our earliest LLX manuscripts preserve the Tetragrammaton in Hebrew. Yet the New Testament authors inherited the halakhic norm of rendering YHWH as κύριος and did not correct it in their quotations of the LLX. Christians will often deride Jews’ refusal to pronounce God’s covenant name as superstition rather than reverence. But since God has hidden the knowledge of the vowels from us and has revealed Himself to us as κύριος through the New Testament (and of course the NT makes a big deal out of calling Jesus κύριος and tying that to God’s covenant name, e.g. in Romans 10:13), I tend to think many scholars and charismatics alike are committing sacrilege, in their separate-but-similar attempts to boast of an elevated familiarity with the LORD.

(An edit for clarity: not that I think using these translations or pronouncing “Yahweh” is bad, especially if it’s used with knowledge that it’s an approximation. Just that the use of the word often seems to be a social signal, and sometimes an incantation.)

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If you could somehow be transported to the banks of the river Chebar in the 30th year on the fifth day of the fourth month, and you shouted, “Ezekiel!”, what do you think would happen?

Pronunciation is the part of other languages (including older versions of modern languages) that we can have the least confidence in, vowel points or no.

Do we want to forbid the transliteration of all names, or just the divine name?

God has revealed His name. Do we dare conceal what God has revealed?

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Bur really, we don’t have anything close to firm knowledge of how Hebrew was “pronounced” in ancient Israel, do we? None of the Hebrew manuscripts had vowel pointing. Related, I remember the former chairwoman of the UW(Madison) classics department teaching us Greek and consistently correcting a native Greek speaker for not pronouncing words properly.

Also remember Doug at our dinner table being owned by my fellow pastors, Phil Moyer and Jody Staveness, on the subject of cultivating four-part harmony in CREC churches. They explained to Doug that singing back at time of Reformation was never truly melodious, let alone harmonious—except in the Vatican choir. The CREC was doing its own thing, and most decidely not recovering any past. Except among the castrati in the Vatican choir, singing would have been a pleasant sort of cacophony.

We can track words across centuries, but not sounds. In fact, it was often difficult for villagers in England to understand villagers 20-50 miles away.

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No, we don’t dare conceal what God has revealed. I suppose my thought is this, though. Translation by formal equivalence means moving from one language into another by substituting the source language’s words for their equivalents in the target language. That process implies the target language already has words equivalent to the words in the source language sentence being translated. “Ezekiel” is an established English way of referring to the prophet, so we translate יְחֶזְקֵאל as Ezekiel because יְחֶזְקֵאל refers to the same person as “Ezekiel” does in English. If that we were all we were doing by rendering יהוה as “Yahweh,” it would be unobjectionable. But, Ezekiel’s name being יְחֶזְקֵאל is not the point of the Bible’s use of יְחֶזְקֵאל – the name is mostly just an indexical, a pointer to the individual. On the other hand, with the divine name, the name itself is the content of the revelation, presumably including its pronunciation. If pronunciation weren’t relevant, it would be strange for conservative scholars to care about recovering “Yahweh” instead of writing “Jehovah” or “the LORD,” both of which, as existing English words, would be more straightforwardly translations of יהוה into idiomatic/historical English.

So there are two points on which I’m uncomfortable. First, “Yahweh” is an attempted transliteration, not a translation; it’s not the same thing as using “Ezekiel” for יְחֶזְקֵאל. “Yahweh” is a word specifically created to approximate the syllables of God’s historical self-revelation. Thus, when English Bibles use “Yahweh” in passages declaring that “Yahweh” is God’s covenant name, they emphasize to Christians that the pronunciation of the name is important, which undercuts the idea that it’s no different from rendering יְחֶזְקֵאל as “Ezekiel.” But if pronunciation is an important aspect of God’s self-revelation in the name יהוה, it’s uncomfortable to treat a best-guess reconstruction as the divine name in translation. Second, by embracing the Second Temple LXX translation of יהוה as κύριος, the New Testament appears to endorse (at least the permissibility and appropriateness of) the translation of יהוה into non-Hebrew languages as a singular title, “the LORD,” rather than to endorse an attempt at transliteration. If transliteration were necessary to honor what God has revealed, the New Testament would not have used κύριος to refer to the LORD by His covenant name.

With that said, having done a bit of Googling this morning, it seems the word “Jehovah” began circulating roughly around the time of the Reformation, as Hebraists attempted to reconstruct the divine name. According to this article, Tyndale’s 1530 Pentateuch introduced the transliteration into English, though sparingly. So the practice has some precedent. And I don’t want to be dogmatic or quarrelsome about words, either.

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If you’d like to argue which is a better rendering of the divine name in English, “Yahweh” or “Jehovah”, that’s a fine argument to have. My understanding is that it’s clear that some mistakes were made in rendering it as “Jehovah,” but certainly no more than in rendering “Ezekiel” or “James.” But “The LORD” certainly isn’t a name except insofar as rendering it in all caps sets it off for the reader (though never the listener) as being something unusual, but not obviously a name unless the reader cares to read the front matter.

The divine name is going to be a sticking point in translating the Hebrew Scriptures, not least because the NT follows the Septuagint in “kurios.” The fact that every English translation that I’m aware of (other than those that use Yahweh or Jehovah) set it off in all caps tells you something funny is going on.

So let’s pivot to a real world question concerning, “Ok then, but what translation do we actually use?”

My church presently uses the ESV, and has for maybe 10 years now. Prior to that (before I came) they used the NKJV. I think the motivation at the time had mostly to do with the elders becoming persuaded of the merit of critical text over the received text.

I personally settled into the ESV around 2009, I think. The church I was previously a part of used that, and when I began giving some level of study to the topic of textual criticism and translations, I found Piper’s case for the ESV to be as compelling as any. I recall at the time being mildly bothered (less than I am now) by the incessant “brothers and sisters” and “bondservants” footnotes, but in many cases appreciated the ESV’s more substantive decisions on when to footnote alternate translations (e.g. Genesis 49:10).

Years later, I am now far more familiar with and militant against the neutering of the ESV, its pulled punches on malakoi, and so forth. However, at the same time, like I stated above, the ESV is something of an “old friend.” It’s the known quantity. Besides, I think there are cases where the ESV really does get it right where less neutered translations like NASB and LSB get it wrong (such as the example that began this post). So if I were to pivot to one of those translations, I feel I would just be trading one set of problems for another.

As I would study to preach, I spend time making sure I’ve acquainted myself with the differences between the ESV, KJV, and NASB95 on any given passage, and try to get the sense of the Greek or Hebrew at at least a primitive lexical level, and – where relevant– try to spot any meaningful differences between the critical text and received text. I want to try to exalt the words of Scripture to the greatest extent I can, especially where I perceive that the ESV has deviated from the proper sense. But when I envision myself preaching from any other translation, I don’t see how this work would change at all.

So as we preach and teach, we are sure to comment on the neutering of God’s word, the nature of effeminacy, the infection of feminism in our translations, and so forth. I take the liberty of shaming the neutered footnotes often. I accentuate the fatherhood of God, and I avoid taking the word “humanity” upon my lips, always insisting instead to refer to man, Adam or Adam’s race.

But I don’t feel like I’m solving anything, really, by pivoting to the NASB95 or LSB. The work of the preacher remains the same, regardless of which of these translations is the one actually being read. But each of them are ashamed of the words of God in their own ways, are they not?

Perhaps instead of thinking in terms of purity, we ought simply treat it as a matter of triage. Given that the major heresy in the church today is our anthropological rebellion, maybe I should be willing to trade the ESV in favor of any formal equivalency translation that refuses to be ashamed of the male distinctive, regardless of what other issues it introduces?

Now, I am at something of a crossroads. My church is currently working toward planting a church about 45 minutes away where we have a few families currently residing, in a town that needs a gospel witness. Myself and another of our current elders will be sent as the founding elders, with me operating as the lead pastor. If I really want to press the issue of pivoting away from the ESV as we begin a new church, now is a pretty good time to have that conversation.

So what would you guys advise? I get the vibe that we’re still at least a decade or two away from a new translation that would really stand in the gap the way Tim would like to see (and I am compelled to earnestly pray for that work). But what to do in the interim?

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I’m gonna take a stab at a reply. It may be slightly hyperbolic and feather-ruffling.

The NKJV may be my least favourite translation available in English today. It lacks both the majesty of the original AV and any text/crit benefit of a newer translation (of which there are undeniably several - I’m substantially unpersuaded by received text arguments). It’s neither fish nor fowl. It’s neither modern nor ancient. It’s neither new nor the KJV. It’s neither nourishingly warm nor refreshingly cool. It is, in the words of Revelation, worthy only to be spat out. I’d go back to the AV before the NKJV except for a theological disagreement with using a translation in church that’s in a language nobody can understand - 1 Corinthians 14.27 anyone? Oh wait, we haven’t got to the NASB yet. Patience.

NASB suffers from a defect of an understanding of how English works, and is therefore, a poor translation. Accuracy in the initial language is only half of translation. A good translation must also make sense in the receptor language (English in this case). While it’s not completely unreadable, it’s far from easy to read. Additionally, from what I hear, the new version of it will have the same defects as virtually every other modern translation. Stockpiling boxes of out of print translations isn’t exactly a plan for success.

And the verse by verse line by line format in both of the above is simply an abomination. As if we don’t already have enough of a hard time with people thinking scripture is disconnected without the format of the physical book adding another barrier.

ESV certainly has it’s problems, but as @jander said above, they’re known problems to us. We can compensate for them. Given that no translation will be perfect, I’d rather one whose problems I understand and can deal openly with than one that’s hard to read. NIV84 was probably my favourite translation for a long time, and I’ve used NIV11 in ministry (its Psalms and Hebrews is awful). I think the formal equivalence vs dynamic equivalence debate is propaganda invented by booksellers to puff their own translations. My view (you all were waiting with bated breath): ESV is more a written English translation and NIV is more a spoken English translation. That’s not completely right, but it’s the best way I know to describe the difference. ESV is more formal in its English, NIV is more casual. Other than that, they’re about the same, including in translation philosophy, whatever the ESV editors will say. And at least the NIV is more open about what it’s doing with its gender-neutrality.

LSB? What’s that?

I’ve written this here before, but both ESV and NIV are readily available, and there are abundant resources for both. That makes them valuable to me. I agree with Tim’s concerns on gender neutrality; it’s wrong. Shouldn’t have happened, but it did. And back here on planet earth as I have neither the linguistic expertise nor the financial resources to begin a new translation, I have to use what’s available to me today. I can deal with the errors of both translations so that my people are warned of the problems, but without risking them thinking they can neither trust nor understand the Bibles they hold in their hands. That starts smelling of pre-Reformation theology to me, if you know what I mean.

But I’m more than happy with others to disagree with me. Makes it more interesting that way.

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The solution is staring us all in the face. We just need to figure out how to raise up @MattShiff to be the head of the ESV oversight committee.

Yep, plus Crossway knows how to make a good typeface. I used the ESV for about 5 years and it was a joy to read. It made switching to the NASB95 very difficult for me. Their paragraph format really helped show the flow of passages.

The NIV completely dropped off my radar. I just did a quick perusal of it and was shocked how much I liked it. Definitely has it’s problems, but at least they still have 1 Tim 4:7 right: ‘Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales; rather, train yourself to be godly.

NASB95 is available in multiple formats, not just verse by verse. What is increasingly hard to find though is the full notes edition (not just with cross references, but the footnotes: Lit. Or). As @adionne pointed out sometime ago, 316 Publishing is continuing to print the NASB95, so we don’t have to worry about stockpiling…just yet. I do not think their Bibles have the full notes though (I emailed them to see if that would change). Zondervan does still offer the 95 with the full notes, but, again, that may end.

Since you and the congregation are all already using the ESV it may be best to stick with it.

HA! Not in a million years. I think you meant Josh Congrove.
I assume you are completely joking, because I am totally unqualified for such a task.

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This idea—that the NASB95 is difficult to read or speak—gets repeated often. I’ve been using it for 30 years, privately and publicly (in four churches), and I (and we) have never had any trouble. It has many other advantages, too (and, yes, could be improved). Spend more than 10 minutes in it and you’ll warm up to it.

Tab here on Amazon shows many NASB95 Lockman options. Other publishers’ editions here. Steadfast Bibles NASB95 editions are beautiful, but, unfortunately, lack the margin notes.

And what do we do with their recent batch of edits?

I used the NASB through high school and college. My first leather thinline was a NASB. The NIV felt so refreshing after it. A more familiar form of English. English like I spoke.

Though, in fairness, I’d take the NASB over the NKJV. In a heartbeat. I just remain sceptical that it will be on the market for long.

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Yes, joking brother. But you’ll continue to be the butt of such jokes, as I continue to value and think highly of how well read you are. Your aptitude for scholasticism is a blessing to us.

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Just to mention that no one should ever use the NLT or the NIV. A central reason they read well is their consistent censoring of God’s inspired male semantic meaning components. We all speak that way now (present company included), so we all prefer reading that way, also. If your loved ones and people in your church are using either of these non-translations, you should beseech them to stop, explaining that reading a “neutered Bible” (I recommend using those words) lies about God and man, and is harmful to their souls. Love,

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Listen to what Tim says above. He knows the recent history (1997 on) and fought in those battles (remember keptthefaith?).

When we assess translations, I wish we put readability after accuracy.

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I had some good conversations with Andrew today on translations. I had always taken for granted that readability was on the same level of importance, as accuracy. But I believe he is right, and this essay he wrote does an excellent job explaining why: Stewarding the Mysteries of God: Implications for the Use and Abuse of Language (you can also find it under his link above). His opening quote from Luther:

I have been very careful to see that where everything turns on a single passage, I have kept to the original quite literally and have not lightly departed from it…. I preferred to do violence to the German language rather than to depart from the word.

Here are examples of what I mean by readability (not talking about gender-neutral stuff, yet). I find the NIV is sometimes more readable than the NASB95: compare Acts1:1-4 (here’s a parallel of NIV, ESV, NASB95, and 1599 Geneva), see also Acts 26:9-11 (parallel) as well as Matthew 9:9-10 (parallel, notice especially the Geneva Bible’s insertion of the help word ‘his’). This is why I agree with Aaron that

I was surprised how much I like the NIV for this reason alone. I’m not saying the NASB95 isn’t readable or understandable. It certainly is. But there are times it is not as immediate as the NIV.

But what about accuracy? Why can’t the Word of God be more wooden and sometimes less readable for the sake of accuracy to the God-breathed words [note: the NIV actually says “God-breathed” in 2 Tim 3:16 contra NASB95]? Perhaps this is a feature, not a bug? Shouldn’t we value accuracy over readability? Of course, the closer we can bring those together the better (see the RC Trench quotes in Andrew’s essay).

All that being said, the NIV is awful, just as Tim has said. Here is a helpful video comparing the NIV with the NRSV against the Greek and RSV. In it he talks about when growing up his grammar school teachers taught him that male pronouns are shared, but female pronouns are not. Aside form the obvious ‘brothers and sisters’ in the epistles, the best place to immediately see the NIV’s neutering is Proverbs chapter 11 and on.

So what about the ESV? Given the above (accuracy>readability, and accuracy>aesthetics…ouch), and the ESV’s many problems, as chronicled on BaylyBlog, I’m going to push for the NASB95.

So, @jander, perhaps it would be better to make the switch? And of course, the sheep already have every translation they want at their finger tips. It’s not as if using the NASB95 from the pulpit will suddenly take their favorite translation from them. Hopefully it will bring them along to see the importance of accuracy (and sometimes the ESV gets it right contra NASB95, e.g. Luke 5:20, Ecc 7:29, Is 49:6, 8)

As has been said countless times, we need a better translation that improves the NASB95 (I wish the LSB would have been it). But until that comes the NASB95 seems to be the best option.

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I don’t want to overstate it, but this one comment serves, to me, to betray your conclusion for me to dump the ESV.

Is “inspired” in fact an “accurate” translation of θεόπνευστος?

To me, it’s another example of where the ESV does it better. As sympathetic as I am to the merit of the NASB95 (and I’ve listened to Andrew speak at length on a podcast on the topic of translations), I struggle to boast that the NASB95 is “more accurate” when I keep running into instances like this.

No diss to the NASB95. Again, I’ve just yet to be compelled that I wouldn’t just be trading one set of (compensable) problems for another, at least when compared to the ESV.

Feels like debating whether or not to upgrade to the next iPhone or switch cellular providers. Unless there’s some massive new feature being gained with a new generation, or some demonstrable savings to be had by switching providers, is it worth the hassle? :slight_smile:

No, but what the NASB95 actually says is “inspired by God.” “Inspired” is “breathed,” so the only very slight change is “God” placed after, rather than before. I’d prefer the ESV here, but only very slightly. Love

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Fair. Thank you for keeping me honest, brother.

I reject this premise. If it’s not readable it’s not a good translation. That’s how translation works. Whether you’re talking to a person speaking English as a second language or you’re speaking another language not your first, intelligibility and readability are key for comprehension.

As an aside, the NASB seems to prioritise the English following the word order of the Greek. Again, this is poor translation philosophy, as Greek word order is a function of grammar and inflection in a way that modern English is not.

It’s not my intent to argue the NASB is inappropriate to use; it’s not. But I think we need to be even-handed with our criticisms. Every translation is unfaithful in one way or another. I’ll read the attached article, but read Luther or the AV as well. They were anything but woodenly literal translations. Luther’s was aimed at the common man, the AV rather less so.

Again, I want to be clear that I agree with the concerns expressed here about modern translation philosophy, but I am also equally concerned that my sheep, men and women who increasingly have a much lower comprehension of written English, are able to understand scripture. When literacy is becoming something of a lost art, I’m uncomfortable raising the bar any higher than is absolutely necessary. I’m not willing to sacrifice accuracy for readability, but nor am I willing to sacrifice intelligibility for a shallow concept of what’s literal. Neither is faithful translation.

Maybe an intertextuality or Septuagint nerd could comment from the NT’s use of the OT as it relates to translation philosophy…

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