Effeminacy condemned on Desiring God


(Jacob Gonzales) #1

Even quotes the Grace of Shame…


(Joseph Bayly) #2

Thanks for sharing. Looking forward to reading it. Was it good?


(Jacob Gonzales) #3

It was. Surprising to say the least.


(Alex Costa) #4

Running commentary:

References I Cor 6:9, other portions of the Bible, and the ancient world. Goes into the definition of malakoi. Quotes Calvin’s commentary on I Cor 6:9

Ah…

I was seriously going to cry “plagarism!!!” up until halfway through the article, but then he quotes the Grace of Shame.

I still have the other half of the article to read, but I’m done with the running commentary.


(Bnonn Tennant) #5

It was a pretty strong piece. Looking through his author page on Desiring God, he seems to have written a lot on masculinity and culture. I’m surprised he fits in at DG, but perhaps all is not lost over there?


(Alistair Robertson) #6

I agree. A very good piece. I’ve always seen John Piper as someone who listens and thinks through things (sometimes very slowly). I wonder if he’ll speak to this.


(Tim Bayly) #7

Well said. Also, John’s the only complementarian I’ve ever heard express convictions about meaning and observance of Creation Order outside the Christian privacy of the home and church. He does it every couple of years, then gets his head cut off and smashed for a couple of years, then does it again and so the cycle continues.

Nice to see DG differing with the big boys on this. Really, the ESV’s translation of malakoi is unsustainable, although I think they’ll double down on it now that the matter is publicly discussed at places like DG. But who knows?

Hope springs eternal in this human pest. Love,


(Allan Eisses) #8

I was about to share this article too, till I saw it had already been shared. It was nice to see.


(Henry Milewski) #9

Speaking of lack of attribution concerning the topic of effeminacy, this piece boggles the mind:


(Joseph Bayly) #10

Sadly par for the course for that author.


(Jon Swerens) #11

Wait what? Who is a plagiarist?


(Jeremy Vander Galien) #12

One of my elders sent the DG article to me. The elder noted how pleasanly surprised he was that DG would carry such a thing. I must say that I’m tickled that DG did such a thing, and that they quoted both Doug Wilson and from The Grace of Shame. Thanking God for this!____


(Joseph Bayly) #13

I don’t think anybody is. Alex thought the original article linked above was awfully similar to reasoning in the Grace of Shame… but then the guy cited it.

Henry seems to be disgusted at Wedgeworth’s writing such a long piece about effeminacy while pretending like we don’t exist. I share his sentiment.


(Christopher Thomas Miller) #14

Is there a solid reason for assuming Wedgeworth is engaging in some nefarious form of ignoring? Arguments against effeminacy are hardly without precedence within the church, and it doesn’t seem too unreasonable to think that he could be unaware (or only barely aware) of y’alls articulations, and/or simply chose to cite other sources for similar arguments (which he certainly did)*. I accept the possibility that there could be something deeper going on (I’m not aware of any history here, which you hinted at earlier), but I’m suspicious that there may be some unreasonable assumptions about his motivations here.

*Especially since much of his point is to build a historical argument, and modern sources aren’t conducive to that.


(Tim Bayly) #16

Actually, those arguments are unprecedented. You won’t find them until The Grace of Shame. Fact.

Love,


(Jason Andersen) #17

Any plagiarism aside, I think of Philippians 1:15-18. This issue is so serious, I think we can rejoice that it’s starting to see traction, regardless of how it comes to happen.


(Tim Bayly) #18

Yes. Furthermore, citing sources indicates a man’s integrity as a scholar and his disposition towards charity and gratitude. When men refuse to do so, it’s worth noting.

Love,


(AndreasM) #19

I agree. I first read “it’s worth nothing” and pondered calling out your vanity! :wink:


(Steven Chu) #20

Same here. the blog at first read like a page out of Grace of Shame.


(Tim Bayly) #21

Lots of the DG content was from outside sources. When I read it, I didn’t think of any plagiarism although it was kind of him to cite the book, for sure. Again and again, we have to remind our own jealous hearts that the principle things are twofold: first, to admit we have nothing original to say. As I’ve repeatedly told my congregation, “I make no claims to originality; everything I think and say I’ve gotten from someone.” Second, we should acknowledge our debts to others as often and loudly as we’re able. A grateful mouth speaks out of a generous heart. Love,