New Warhorn Media post by Lucas Weeks:
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This was a very helpful podcast. I was especially fascinated by the seeming paradox of fellowship and doctrine, how you typically have one type of church and not the other at the same time.
I was wondering if you can include some sort of discussion for part 2 relating to the whole issue of how you can grow as a church from a fellowship-type of church to a more doctrine centered church while still maintaining the unity of love that comes from having the same mind. For instance, if one is from a broadly evangelical church which has members from Pentecostal background, how do you continue to maintain that unity of love as the Lord is leading you to a more reformed style of worship? What are some practical ways to show love and yet guide our lives by robust doctrines, especially in areas where the reformed doctrine is maligned? Thanks.
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Hi Steven, some ideas on your questions. I speak as a former Pentecostal, so I still have some skin in the game.
- If you want to get the buy-in of your Pentecostal brethren as you shift to a more Reformed approach to worship, do so from the premise that in at least some respects, they will have something to teach you. There is a tendency in the Reformed Community to think, “We are the wise and wisdom will die with us” - and I’ve seen this with Fundamentalists as well - but, that mindset will really work against what you are trying to achieve.
- More generally, we think that Christian unity is a melting-pot in which everything is reduced to a theological and ecclesiastical beige, which is why community churches have such a bad rap. But if instead, you think of unity, not as a melting-pot, but as a mosaic - where the individually very different pieces come together to form a picture of the greater Whole - you may get somewhere.
As CS Lewis put it, “How gloriously different are the saints”.
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Hi Ross,
I really appreciate the email. I need to be reminded of the pride that easily creeps up in me, and that is actually in part why I wrote in the first place. I want to engage with brothers and sisters that are from a different theological perspective, but as my wife reminded me, “Don’t drive people off.” It does get to me because, I think we’ve all done it, we have stood on our theological Shibboleth and it results in division. Tim’s call to stand on biblical sexuality is a very important stand for instance. My problem is that at every point where you want to take a stand, it becomes a shibboleth. It comes in the territory when you are a non-denominational church. Then again, I am in a Chinese Church, and 90% of them are non-denominational.
For my situation, this brother also guest preaches once in a while in the church, and I am becoming more and more uncomfortable with the emphasis on special music after the sermon. Uncomfortable because it seems to me that there seems to be the message that the word itself is not enough, and therefore you need to have music to buffer up and supplement the word. I did engage him in a couple of email exchanges about this, and it ended up in a standstill. I think I was courteous to him, but I do appreciate your reminder. Thank you very much.
(I responded earlier via email, but it didn’t show up here. So I’m cutting and pasting here directly.)
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Hi Steve, I imagine that being in a Chinese church, there will be a whole set of cultural nuances as well that I’m not picking up on 
Yes, the “special music after the sermon” thing - very common on altar calls for salvation, in both Pentecostal and Fundamentalist settings, e,g - I do get your point here. After some thought - if his preaching of the Word is strong enough on its own account, while it doesn’t need the music, the music itself will not get in the way of what the Word will do. So, perhaps if you encourage him in his preaching of the Word - and possibly show him how he could improve that - that may offer a satisfactory workround for you.
That’s the rub, isn’t it? I tried to point to the sufficiency of the word and he believes that the music is part of the ambiance of the service through which God will work. This is fundamentally theological. How do you move on with the one mind from Philippians? That’s what I was hoping to hear the podcast address.
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Hi Ross,
I really appreciate the email. I need to be reminded of the pride that easily creeps up in me, and that is actually in part why I wrote in the first place. I want to engage with brothers and sisters that are from a different theological perspective, but as my wife reminded me, “Don’t drive people off.” It does get to me because, I think we’ve all done it, we have stood on our theological Shibboleth and it results in division. Tim’s call to stand on biblical sexuality is a very important stand for instance. My problem is that at every point where you want to take a stand, it becomes a shibboleth. It comes in the territory when you are a non-denominational church. Then again, I am in a Chinese Church, and 90% of them are non-denominational.
For my situation, this brother also guest preaches once in a while in the church, and I am becoming more and more uncomfortable with the emphasis on special music after the sermon. Uncomfortable because it seems to me that there seems to be the message that the word itself is not enough, and therefore you need to have music to buffer up and supplement the word. I did engage him in a couple of email exchanges about this, and it ended up in a standstill. I think I was courteous to him, but I do appreciate your reminder. Thank you very much.