Adam's federal headship, the feminist heresy, and the Westminster Standards

[FaithAlone (John M.)]

@Jesse

Gill also seems to agree with this interpretation of the passage. This makes it unlikely to be some kind of modern completarian idea or reading of Genesis 3:6.

Yes, it seems that even Calvin’s argument against that position means that it’s not completely novel. The words “with her” are right there in the text after all.

I did hear a complementarian today express a (not strongly held) opinion that Adam eating the fruit was not his first sin, but that his first sin was in not crushing the snake and protecting his wife. This struck me as theologically very novel, but it also seems hard to avoid if you hold the position that Adam was physically present when Eve was tempted.

Thank you, pastors Tim and Jesse for your input. I would like to do some more research on this and I appreciate the pointers.

@Joel

From a literary standpoint, it doesn’t make sense that Adam was blameworthy for failing to protect Eve from the serpent or otherwise responsible for her actions because those are not the reasons for which he is rebuked by God.

This seems to be the strongest argument against the “physically present” side of the argument, or at least to the various complementarian knock-on effects of holding that position: Adam isn’t rebuked by God for it, and Paul doesn’t bring it up either AFAICT.

[sewardsfolly (Nick)]

Like a dork, I just last evening discovered this thread. (But am very much enjoying reading it.)

For whatever it’s worth, I love Perelandra.

@FaithAlone

Part of the problem with Perelandra is that the story just bogs down in the middle, and like you say, the premise is just missing a few nuts or bolts and isn’t enough to carry the story through the slow points.

I lovingly demur. Unless you’re being funny. The whole planet is essentially a sinless “bog” world. The first time I read the novel, I knew there were things from it that I wouldn’t forget from then on even if I lived to be 150 years old. I’ve since read it several more times. Some of the most amazing parts are from the middle of the book. Reading “Perelandra” again after “Hideous Strength” seems to always make me appreciate the later/closing sections of “Perelandra” all the more, too.

@FaithAlone

But Covid seems almost tailor-made for the Belbury crowd.

Like they stitched together the seams themselves.

[aaron.prelock]

@danielmeyer

I don’t think we need to imagine some weird romance novelly “Then I’ll die with you!”

In Milton that mindset is linked with Satan’s mad desire to rule in hell rather than serve in heaven. It’s a sign of sin’s distorting impact on our minds rather than a romantic devotion.