Wheaton shames black anti-abortionist

Division is most often doctrinal and/or personal (often both) than institutional. People who think about unity institutionally aren’t reading the New Testament with understanding. Jesus, for instance, never stops pointing out the division of the One Truth Church of His time, which was Judaism. For millennia, men have been mistaking subsequence for consequence. For even more millenia, men have been mistaking institutional formal connection for spiritual unity. “Beware of the leaven of the scribes and Pharisees.” Love,

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Thanks for the explanation. That does help.

I transferred out of the PCA last January when the church also pulled out of the PCA. Then, sadly, realized how untaught and un-Reformed the congregation truly was. By that time, it was too late, and the pianist was calling for my head. You know those darn pianist!

Ecclesiastically, I’m adrift, hoping to land in the OPC.

Yeah, the OPC can serve nicely as a tiny group of presbyters to adjudicate conflict and guard morals and doctrine. Used to be in an OPC congregation while in seminary. Hope you outlasted your pianist. Pianists, choir directors, and church secretaries along with associate or assistant pastors who preceded you. Love,

I understand the distinctions made, but even Jesus was careful to speak in Matt 23:3 about submission to hypocritical false teachers, even while acknowledging their hypocrisy. Jesus also spoke about a unity that is seen in John 17, and in 1 Corinthians 3 Paul is pretty strong on unity there, also.

Clearly there are details that need to be considered in each, but as a quick overview of my understanding, if we are in authority, we should exercise godly discipline over those under our authority, up to ex-communication; if we are under authority, we should submit to that authority, even if it involves being wrongly disciplined up to being thrown out of a church.

I don’t see the Bible teaching us to leave the institutional expression of the Church unless we are thrown out (2 Cor 6:17 is speaking of recognised unbelievers as opposed to a church that is being led by unbelievers - another distinction).

Having said all that, this is mainly theoretical for me at this time, so I’ll leave further discussion until I either have a greater need of it, or more time to mull over it. I leave last word to you (if you care to take it) since you have and are living these principles out right now.

I’d only say that it’s noteworthy how little Scripture says about the sacraments (HT to Bannerman) and the “institutional expression of the Church.” I’ve submitted to the PCA at the point where no one who loved me and supported my work as a pastor thought I should, and I don’t regret it. As it turned out, they vindicated me although it was surprising. But I also don’t regret transferring from the PCA to Clearnote. They (my PCA presbytery) approved the transfer, and I’m now in an ecclesiastical fellowship that honors God’s Word.

The real question is whether Antioch appealing to Jerusalem was an “institutional expression of the Church?” It’s not clear, and certainly the Roman Catholics abuse what we see in the New Testament in support of their much-vaunted claims of institutional unity. Which is why they lie about the confrontation by the Apostle Paul of the Apostle Peter, falsely claiming it was merely a charade. When it comes to unity, we need to keep our eye on the ball. Conflict between institutional on the one hand, and moral and doctrinal unity on the other hand, are pervasive. People I worked hand-in-hand with in the PC(USA) had nothing more to do with me after our church transferred from the PC(USA) into the PCA. Just as some PCA pastors I worked closely with for years cut me off after I left their institution. Their church. Their confessional community. Their fellowship. Their congregation. Their non-profit organization. Love,

More of these Christian Colleges are more college,academia than Christian. There are few places in the academic world which are truly Christian. It is a sad reality and a reminder that Christian parents must do all they can in preparing their children before they go to college and continue to teach/instruct their children even while they are attending college.

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There in lies the problem in the PCA. All those who are fighting to save it, or destroy it, think of it as “their denomination.” And it is. Do we own the church or does Christ own us? That is what it boils down to. When members of the church visible start arguing about reputation, etc., and trying to save it, its usually already lost.