Great point, and one I’m going to try to remember in the future.
Heh, yeah I mean we obviously agree on the broad strokes. What we’re having trouble with is figuring out how they apply, especially (I think) to a world of mass media.
My concern was originally specifically around Sheologians. I keep using the word “uneasy” because I have trouble articulating exactly where the problem lies. You can kind of massage all the principles to say that they’re within the letter of the law. They’re under oversight. They’re only meaning to teach women. They’re a church ministry. Etc etc.
But I still can’t help feeling that something isn’t right about what they’re doing.
There is a certain irony here, because I’ve also struggled with men who have their own ministries without being approved by a congregation. My own contributions to It’s Good To Be A Man would fall into that category, along with my blog. I’m not entirely sure how to fit that kind of thing into the letter of the law, but when I look at other people doing similar things (I’m too close to myself to judge well), I can’t help feeling like there is something right about what they’re doing. There are plenty of ministries that are easy to condemn, but the general idea of gifted men teaching others outside of a more natural relational structure doesn’t seem inherently problematic in the way that it does when women do it.
I know this is all very gut-based reasoning, which is one reason I’m submitting it for critique. I know intuition is easily conditioned into error. But the thing is, this intuition is something that has only emerged as I have become more fluent in the biblical theology of sexuality, and more attentive to the creation patterns God established. Doesn’t mean it’s right…I just want to know why it’s wrong…
Your concern sounds similar to mine regarding the increasingly normal practice of seeking counseling from a Certified Biblical Counselor instead of your (own) pastor. I think the problem is less with the existence of podcasts like that, or with counselors and more about the supplanting and bypassing of first-order natural relationships.
Kelly, very low cost Kindle version of Calvin’s sermons on 1 Timothy. Beginning with sermon 17.
Just piping up to say thanks for a very interesting discussion!
My husband and I are getting some great conversation out of it.
@bnonn 's uneasiness is precisely why I’ve only listened to Sheologians twice, in spite of the fact that we seemingly agree on many issues & doctrines.
I certainly understand that uneasiness, and share in it with regard to some ministries. I think @jtbayly is right in that it comes from the supplanting of natural relationships that is often occurring in our internet society. If, for instance, I were to tune out my pastor’s sermons because they just weren’t as good as R.C. Sproul sermons available online, that would eventually cause problems in my spiritual life. I think when looking at online ministries, probably especially if it’s being put out by women, prayerful discernment and a biblically informed conscience are necessary, along with making sure they don’t supplant real church community, relationships, and teaching.
I’m not able to get that book right now, but thanks to your suggestion, I did find Calvin’s commentary on this passage, for free on BibleHub. Thank you!
Yes, very worthwhile to read Calvin’s commentary, but also, if you can ever borrow or buy his sermons, they are very different and helpful.
Each situational definition prescribes and proscribes different roles for the different participants. When a patient goes to speak to a psychiatrist, the situation determines the range of behaviors for each person. Only one of the two participants, for example, is “allowed” to cry.
There is a chapter later on in the book called “The Merging of Masculinity and Femininity”. Looking forward to it.
Much of the discussion in this thread is grappling with the fact that we can be instructed in many new and weird ways, ways that would have been unknown in Paul’s day. They didn’t even have the possibility of being instructed through a book. So if a woman is to “ask her husband at home,” does that mean she shouldn’t listen to the sheologians? For that matter, should a man ever read Passion and Purity? (That’s mostly a joke, except for the fact that I have read it.)
To the person who gifted me a copy of Calvin’s 1 Timothy sermons: Luke 6:38
No sermon have I. But if they wont listen to Paul in 1Tim 2 about the timeless nature (she deceived; he not) of his intruction then I’ve found it neccessary to be instructed from 1Cor. 14:38.
Obviously an accident, but here you are quoting from the NIV downgrade! (despite the link saying NASB95). I think you wrote a BB post against Doug Moo’s part in this a while back.
Edit, here it is: http://baylyblog.com/blog/2010/11/doug-moo-assumes-authority-over-text-gods-word
Edit 2: perhaps you were joking
After 15-20 years of wonderful service by the Online Bible for the Mac, it died last year and I refuse to spend $1,000 with Logos or any other lucrative Bible software company replacing what I already owned. So now I have to use Bible Gateway which reverts to NIV if one doesn’t sign in. Aaargh! Sorry for the error. I wish I had been joking. Love,
For what it’s worth I’ve been happily using Blue Letter Bible for 8 or 10 years now; you can set and save your preferences without logging in; it also offers multiple-verse retrieval; you can look up the Strong’s reference; and there’s several other study helps. (And as a special bonus, the words aren’t actually blue.)