I’d be up for signing any such “Presbytamish New Deal”, “Baptamish New Deal”, etc.
Voluntary, of course, and only as a set of guidelines. Kind of like the Billy Graham rule. But it would be nice to have a list of “wise moves”. What you mentioned about no electronics in the bedroom should definitely be on the list.
Can’t behind that, need that sweet command prompt. 
The hypocrisy is not from arbitrary rule enforcement, it is from their presentation of themselves as free from modern technology. If they would be consistent in that and not claim moral superiority it wouldn’t be hypocrisy. They would be known as prudes rather than idelic.
Good reminder.
In doing this I just don’t want us to turn aside from the Great Commission.
Lord, give us Acts 2:42-47 AND Matthew 28:19-20.
Engage. Engage. Engage the culture.
It is the whole mantra of evangelism from before I was born. And yet it seems the times of greatest revival are not from engagement but rather great calls of holiness and repentance.
Where does scripture call us to retreat from culture? Flee from idolatry and immorality; that much is clear. But is that retreating from culture? @ldweeks, I know you’re making a different point (and my sense is your own background makes you able to see better than most how unnecessary much of our own lifestyles are today) but I think it’s still worth considering why we think the Amish have something we ought to value. What is it about them that’s admirable? Is their retreat the means by which they get consistency between generations and ‘purity’ of their lifestyle, or is it perhaps more that they just don’t care what the ‘outside world’ thinks of them? In other words, are we looking at the result and assuming it’s the cause?
I remember some years ago realising that Keller’s transformationalism and Westminster West’s neo-anabaptism weren’t the only options. Much of biblical Christianity simply was…Christian. They didn’t have delusions of conquering society nor did they indulge in useless opting out of society.
Spot on. That’s neither engagement with culture nor retreat from culture. I believe that would be called ‘faithfulness.’ In the home, in the church, and in society. There’s always going to be parts of society that we can’t participate in (like Corinthian idol feasts), yet we’re explicitly called to be ‘in the world.’ Be faithful husbands, fathers, pastors, businessmen, day-labourers, government employees. When we’re no longer able to be faithful in our given employment, we move on (that’s not in any way to trivialise the legitimate issues @Joel brought up earlier), but we do so trusting God that he will enable us to provide for our family - even if it’s not at a level or in a way that would be our choice.
That’s what engage means
Thanks for saying this, Daniel. Christ calls His church to go to the nations and advance His kingdom in the world.
That may be what it means in the true sense but it is not what is meant by Keller, TGC, Cru, Young Life…after all, people are just souls whose intentions are good, O Lord, please don’t let them be misunderstood.
Thanks for this post and the entertainment post. I have been reading this with great interest, because I have struggled with the same issue for a long time. From the entertainment post, I have vacillated between almost no entertainment to letting some entertainment coming in (begrudgingly). In that sense, I have in many ways appreciated @nathanalberson podcast on the movies. It has at least help with some dialog with my older children to address how to view entertainment from a Christian perspective. It’s not a perfect system, because, as mentioned before, modern entertainment is so corrupt and vile. I do appreciate that someone is doing this podcast, and they are a lone voice.
From a parenting perspective, I want to present a world that appreciates what God has made, including technology and entertainment, to my children, thinking that it is possible to navigate the culture and holding on to the Christian faith at the same time. Looking back now, especially with adult children, I have come to realize how hard it is, and I think that the times when I have been a hardliner with respect to technology have, in fact, been things I look back and think I have done right, and the time when I have been lenient, especially with respect to entertainment, I have much to be ashamed about. I do notice that it’s true, when my kids get a smart phone, something changes regrettably. I am strict about not the phone in their own room and constantly monitoring, when I can, what they consume, and ask them hard questions (I have had bad experiences with filters. I am willing to listen if anyone has any suggestions.). But the phone has changed them, if just for the very fact that they are now listening to a broader group of kids, via chat or social media. Even if I have their pass codes, and can access the phone, something still changes. And it doesn’t matter if the kids are homeschooled. Crud is everywhere.
But total withdrawal is not an option for me. I’d have to leave my immigrant church, many 1st gen Christians who are trying to raise a Christian family for the first time. Many who came out of the modern China have a very hard time knowing what the purpose of the family is. Leaving and finding a Christian ghetto is walking away from a mission field. But it’s a constant battle for me to know where to draw the line for technology.
I have a proposal: @nathanalberson, can you please restart MSAL? The music there is such a balm to my soul in terms of the battle I face and yes, a great tool against the garbage in the entertainment world. I love singing along with the Psalms of God’s righteous judgment. My soul needs to hear that.
My wife and I use Accountable 2 You. It’s certainly not perfect, but it always you to set up “accountability partners,” even more than one, and receive reports from all device activity.
This isn’t a bullet proof solution by any stretch, but it does provide accountability in what you are viewing in a way that filters don’t. I find even the knowledge it’s on my phone helps me resist temptations. My kids don’t have any devices of there own, but I think it works well there too.
I’ve also heard good things from friends about Covenant Eyes, but have no personal experience with it.
Figuring out what godly ethics and policy would look like is hard, a lot harder than figuring out how what the government is currently doing is wrong. The question is, do Christians have a duty to teach the civil magistrate the law of God or not? If not, sure, let’s stop wasting our time on it. But if it’s our duty, then we should be about the work no matter how unlikely it seems that it will bear fruit. The Bible is full of examples of men taking stupid little actions by faith that God blessed in big ways, to His glory. Let’s follow in their train!
I don’t think our current stance (which seems to be a rejection of anything that smells like theonomy combined with a bemoaning of the fact that only the Roman Catholics are doing any work in the field of ethics) is helpful. If the Roman Catholics are right to engage the hard work of developing Christian ethics (and policy), then we should follow their example even if people accuse us of being theonomists. If the Roman Catholics are delusional in this, we should stop moaning that they’re the only ones doing this work.
I’m convinced they’re not delusional. I think it’s important work we’ve left undone. And if others have attempted it poorly that’s no excuse to reject the work–it’s all the more need to learn from their mistakes and build onto what’s sound.
Love,
So right. My reference to transformational delusion was more towards Kellerite transformationalism than towards theonomic varieties. While I have my own concerns and cautions about some theonomic groups, I am thankful for anyone who urges Christians to think about politics and society from an explicitly biblical frame of reference. (Ironically I think Doug Wilson and Jonathan Leeman are very similar in that regard - they’re both pushing back against the myth of neutrality in the public square). The theonomic attempt at biblical thinking, even if I’m persuaded certain elements of it are either exegetically or historically problematic, is worlds apart from the Christian coffeeshop/microbrew/soupkitchen/artistcafe model of ‘in the city for the city’.
Where do you recommend we start? Specific resources for learning how to think about ethics from a reformed perspective? I just got an email from a colleague the other day with a list of books on the subject, and I’d love to see where your recommendations overlap with his. I’m convinced Protestants need to step up the ethics game (especially the more theology I read from solidly Reformed types between the mid 1600s to early 1900s). But my own training in that area (and admittedly my own reading/study) has been pitifully small.
Luther dedicated his commentary on the Magnificat to then 17-year-old Duke John Frederick… who Martin reasonably presumed would one day become one of Europe’s powerful Electors…
Did Luther have a duty to this teen before he ascended to the season of power in his life?
When he emerged from his castle exile with the German New Testament in hand, Young Herr Marty wrote to Frederick…
Certainly the example of Luther is not sufficient to establish a duty for those of us committed to sola Scriptura.
But beyond Luther, we have Paul, Peter and Jesus.
So let us answer brother @danielmeyer’s rhetorical question with the boldness and clarity that a tremulous generation requires.
Yes, Christians have a duty to teach the civil magistrate the law of God.