Paedobaptism. A debate

[SteveO (Steven Opp)]

@tbbayly

For starters, once-and-done vs. weekly? One baptism vs. hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of communings.

I’m not talking about frequency, just motivation. Both can be motivated by trying to attain fire insurance for your little one. Perhaps the weekly assurance of salvation is something mothers are more comforted by, while fathers are more comforted by the once and done sacrament? Not saying I think that, just thinking out loud.

@tbbayly

Then too, orthodox reformed liturgies of baptism on top of pastors meeting with parents prior to the baptism warning the parents that the baptism of our covenant children doesn’t assure their salvation. No such warnings are given by paedocommunionists.

Maybe not for Leithart, but I think for Wilson. For Wilson it’s all about entering the covenant, thought that doesn’t mean entering heaven. The difference between FV dark and light perhaps? Get rid of paedobaptism and all these silly arguments disappear.

@tbbayly

I could go on to open up the credo-baptist’s sacramental approach to the baptism of all the church’s children on the same Sunday after they complete the pastor’s class… Credos should note how similar their practice of baptism is to sacramentalist paedos, and how similar the ratio of fruit is between their subjects in coming years.

I will happily acknowledge all abuses of baptism by credos. I will note, though, that lack of fruit in a convert generally has to do with a lack of church discipline, which is perhaps the main problem in credo churches. But yes, credos attempts at church growth through gimmicky altar calls, sign this paper, check-this-box, etc. methods, are very similar to a parent doing the same vicariously for their baby, whether through paedobaptism or paedocommunion. Both are basically “name it and claim it” methods.

@tbbayly

Main point, though, is not that parents shouldn’t take comfort from this or that practice as they pray for the salvation of the souls of their precious children. The mother or father who didn’t do so would be almost inhuman. God Himself gives us these promises because they’re true.

How does a parent take any comfort in a ritual which may or may not really do anything? The real hope is that God blesses faithful Christian parenting.

@tbbayly

Main point is that paedocommunion is a violation of Scripture and we know this not because mothers or fathers take comfort from the weekly communing of their child.

I get it, and I agree with most of your original post. I just think it applies to paedobaptism too (faith always precedes baptism in the Bible). But taking comfort in an outward sign, like circumcision for the Judaizers, is common to both paedosacraments, say I.

@tbbayly

What is critical for me, though, is the pastoral issue of children not coming to the table through the elders, but through their mother and father.

Yes! But can’t you see this is no different from how kids come to baptism, through their mother and father? How can you say one is familial and the other isn’t?