John Piper attacks President Trump: Biden and Trump are morally equivalent

I think what has happened is a case of defining deviancy down, so to speak. Back in a time when there was more societal consensus on moral issues and political disagreement occurred over matters of indifference, then character of candidates would play a big role. But now that the ground has shifted and moral issues have come to forefront of politics, the role of candidate character has diminished. When what was deviant has become normal, Christians must adapt.

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Thanks again.

Words have meaning. To accuse someone who believes both candidates of being unfit for the highest office in our nation, albeit for different reasons is not partisan. It may be stupid, or sinful, or wrong, but partisan is something else entirely. For example, to vent our ire on the opposing candidate for things we excuse in our own would be ā€œpartisanā€. Piper may have been comically wrong, but to hurl the ā€œpartisanā€ insult is silly to an extreme.

May be true. Not so for me. I enjoy what Iā€™ve read of your writing (on culture and gender, less on partisanship;)), I find it bracing. But I donā€™t have a problem with Piper adopting an irenic tone when appropriate. My tone in this forum has probably been overly abrasive, and definitely more aggressive than my personal interactions tend to be. But regardless of that, to describe an article that simply defends the view most of the church held five years ago, and expresses befuddlement at the sudden change, as some aggressive attack is, again, silly.

My guess is that the only thing we have any serious disagreement about is the moral character of President Trump. No amount of evidence, anecdotes, or Biblical exegesis would fix that. The only thing that would make a difference is if the President experienced a sudden conversion to pro choice politics. That would end our disagreement. And that is the meaning of ā€œvehemently partisanā€ :wink:

Nah, Iā€™m sure with my background in Arminianish theology I have much to learn and unlearn regarding the nature of sin, but thatā€™s not the roots of this disagreement. However, I too hope that we can meet someday. God bless

Well then, Iā€™m silly. Not what people typically accuse me of. But hey, itā€™s a pleasant change. Affectionately

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Not you, but in this case, I do think the opinion is silly. Not meant offensive, but I think this forum asks for honesty.

In broad strokes, I understand what you are saying. I guess Iā€™d say there was a time when character was required in candidates, but with the conflation of celebrity and statesmanship, the rise of the attention economy, and the rejection of a transcendent moral code, thatā€™s no longer true. Corruption has always been a reality in our system, and weā€™ve had some pretty profane and immoral men in the White House, but they had to keep quiet about it.

Yes, I think this is the issue, especially that they ā€œmust adaptā€. The times we live in have brought many to believe that new standards are needed to deal with these extraordinary times. The greatest villains will naturally be those who are unwilling to compromise for the new reality. We can see the same dynamic play out in many other contexts.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1322702737029558272?s=20

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#belivers :laughing:

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