Boycotting modern music as well, is that something to be thinking about?
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I’ll admit that my aim was too wide. But I think it’s only fair that you admit in turn that you gave me a target that was all over the place. You didn’t tell me where you planned to draw any lines, so I was left to make (poor, as it turns out) assumptions. Maybe that’s as good a way as any to have this discussion … I’m not really blaming you. I’m just not sure I’m blaming me too much either.
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Certainly. And an area where I probably need to exercise more discretion.
I’ll never forget Lucas exhorting the college group when we were in it concerning the content of the songs we listened to. I can’t remember what song it was, but one that I know by heart is pure poison:
The Way by Fastball
They made up their minds
And they started packing
They left before the sun came up that day
An exit to eternal summer slacking
But where were they going without ever knowing the wayThey drank up the wine
And they got to talking
They now had more important things to say
And when the car broke down
They started walking
Where were they going without ever knowing the wayAnyone can see the road that they walk on is paved in gold
And it’s always summer
They’ll never get cold
They’ll never get hungry
They’ll never get old and gray
You can see their shadows wandering off somewhere
They won’t make it home
But they really don’t care
They wanted the highway
They’re happier there todayTheir children woke up
And they couldn’t find 'em
They left before the sun came up that day
They just drove off and left it all behind 'em
Leaving it all behind
But where were they going without ever knowing the way?Anyone can see the road that they walk on is paved in gold
And it’s always summer
They’ll never get cold
They’ll never get hungry
They’ll never get old and gray
You can see their shadows wandering off somewhere
They won’t make it home
But they really don’t care
They wanted the highway
They’re happier there todayAnyone can see the road that they walk on is paved in gold
And it’s always summer
They’ll never get cold
They’ll never get hungry
They’ll never get old and gray
You can see their shadows wandering off somewhere
They won’t make it home
But they really don’t care
They wanted the highway
They’re happier there today
Today…
How can anybody listen to this song without crying at the wickedness that we have given ourselves to as a nation? The hatred and rejection of all responsibility is palpable. And it’s a siren song to us.
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If this thread had been, let’s burn all modern music, I would have said I love it all. And burn it please. I don’t think we’ve begun to wrap our heads around how attractive and poisonous a song like that is.
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I’m thinking about my Chrysostom post above… We undervalue godly asceticism. Evangelicals and reconstructionists categorically despise it, most especially because they have their eyes set primarily on taking the culture; they have to supply the substitute. I read the Reformers and the Puritans, and they avoid the trappings of asceticism without throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I suppose we’ve abandoned it because the cost of preaching it would be too high (did you notice some of Chrysostom’s asides in the quote?). I mean, what pastor would be so audacious as to call the people of his church to pursue godliness by giving up those things that fuel their jealousy and resentment (Facebook), satisfy their thirst for gossip (Twitter), and stoke their lust and violence (Hollywood).
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I’m interested in learning more about your Reformed Amish group. Do you have a brochure you can send me?
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Reformed Amish Group (RAG for short) is a pretty exclusive club, but we are open to new members right now. I’d hand your a brochure with some of our literature, but we banned literature a long time ago.
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The furniture is gonna be awesome.
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Very good thoughts and conversation here.
Thank you Joseph for bringing this up. I’m also leaning to your side.
I think somebody alluded to it before: I find myself very often thinking “Maybe they weren’t that wrong about it back then”. With “they” I would refer to spiritual fathers and mothers back in the 80s when I grew up about the “the world”.
I remember my grandmother sitting next to me asking about that I was reading. I showed her my “book”, a hard cover comic book with Superman, Batman and more, titled “The Legend of the Superheroes”. She said “Jesus is the only one, he isn’t a superhero and no legend, but truth. Couldn’t you read some biographies of men of faith?” There was no “entertainment” in her life, just work, caring for her grandchildren, reading and going to church.
Another hint could be: In the Old Testament, the highest punishment for Israel was dispersion, being scattered among the nations. The opposite was living together as a nation, composed, everything in a certain order (tribes, families, land ownership, yearly feasts etc). The German word for scattering, dispersal is “Zerstreuung”. This word has also the meaning of distraction. And very often that’s what we want from entertainment: being distracted from everything else. Maybe that’s not a good thing, maybe we as individuals and communities should look to be built up, composed, in order, concentrated.
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Unsure about “tow” but naphtha almost certainly refers to a flammable chemical that is used in napalm.
Thanks for the text from Chrysostom. Somewhat reminiscent of Augustine in the effects of the theater.
I’ve never considered myself a big TV watcher but I used to watch it a lot more than today. I was always looking for the next “great” show. But I got convicted of the way I thought of the women on some of the shows. These weren’t pornographic; they were shows on broadcast television.
So I turned it off. I watch very little non-sports related programming now. If you take out movie night with the kids and Sunday night x-files re-runs (a weird hobby, I agree) and Jeopardy (which I recently gave up), then there’s very little.
The effect was almost instant. My wife became more beautiful overnight. I’d been feeding myself a steady - yet false - diet of what beauty was and she didn’t always measure up. I say this to my shame, but also as a warning and exhortation. We should turn it off. We don’t need it.
I’m not ready to go full @jtbayly yet, but maybe with time… I don’t know. With MLB going woke, maybe that will hasten my move. (Mostly I’m a baseball listener though. Such a relaxing time - sitting on the back porch in the evening as the sun is going down listening to the Braves… but digress).
NOTE: Edited for spelling correction.
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I wonder if one cannot truly discern the value (or lack of value) of modern entertainment until one has spent enough time away from it so that one can see with fresh eyes.
Like most children of the 70s, I binge-watched television. But in my mid-20’s I entirely gave up watching TV. After several years away from it, anytime I did happen to see a TV on, I came away with the strong impression that sitcoms, news, etc. were simultaneously boring and stupid and yet very attention-grabbing. I didn’t like the feeling.
I also was not discerning about movies as a young adult but didn’t see many as I grew older since I didn’t have a VCR/DVD player and didn’t go to the theater much. And when home streaming became a thing, I still didn’t watch much because I was too busy, and when I did watch something, I usually chose old stuff that was well-recommended to get the most out of the time spent.
I never tried to be ascetic, but as with television, I came to the point where I couldn’t enjoy most modern entertainment because it seemed either too stupid, too sentimental, too sensational, too anachronistic, or too earnestly espousing of contemporary moral platitudes. I won’t say I’ve become especially spiritually-minded; probably I had developed highbrow tastes whereas pretty much anything Netflix or Hollywood puts out will be middlebrow at best.
My wife and I generally steer clear of stuff that has violence and sex/nudity, but occasionally something gets through, and I find myself put off by it in a way that wouldn’t have happened to my younger self. For example, I am much less used to seeing violence now than I was even as an older child, and I respond with a feeling of horror rather than jadedness. And when it comes to sex/nudity, I get the uncomfortable feeling like I am visiting someone’s house, got the doors mixed up, and inadvertently walked in on people dressing or having an intimate moment. And it’s very clear to me that both the violence and sex/nudity were not necessary to convey the story but instead are added to satisfy base desires. And I recognize that I have those base desires, too.
I didn’t get to this point because I was especially spiritual or ascetic, but I simply spent enough time away from modern entertainment to get it purged from my system so I could see it in a new light. That’s something I recommend for everyone.
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This song sounds very like a section in The Odyssey in which Odysseus (Ulysses) meets a group of people who have shrugged off all responsibility:
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My 5 year old just now: “Daddy, is there still no more Chip and Lance?”
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Ahem. I’d just like to take a moment to point out that my post suggesting a Joseph Bayly guest appearance on Sanity at the Movies had reached double-digit likes. Just saying. (It needs to happen).
Enjoying the conversation. Thanks.
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Joseph said initially to stop watching modern movies. If we want to be incremental, that would be a good start. Modern movies make it easy to avoid them because the stories aren’t even good.
Somewhat spontaneously, I have cut back considerably on the amount of shows and movies my wife and I watch. Instead we talk, or read more. It hasn’t been that long but it’s made a difference. And I realize I’m a complete idiot.
My daughters love the Frozen characters. They love to watch those movies, which I haven’t seen and based on what I have heard, do not want to see. I’m struck at how affected my daughters are by entertainment. They get scared easily. They react very emotionally and viscerally to what they see. It makes me realize I’ve seen so much over 30 some odd years that I’m numb to how these pretend images affect me. And then I remember the kid’s movies I saw when I was my daughters’ ages, and how, for better or worse, it’s all stuck with me. Disney was bad in the 90s, and even worse today. It’s the same with Mr. Roger’s or Sesame Street. But don’t ever publicly criticize Mr. Roger’s unless you are prepared to take on full millennial fury…
Watch how your young children consume entertainment and see how easily they are molded by it.
For the last year, we’ve watched how God has judged our nation with Covid, and riots, and confusion and anger and economic hardship and sadness and sickness and death. Speaking for myself, even though intellectually I can agree that God is judging us and we need to repent, I’ve found myself devoid of any know-how of what to actually do. How to have a seriousness and sadness that equals what I see in Scripture when nations repent. When the occasion calls for lament, I don’t know what to do. Do I fast? I can make it like half a day, and I don’t want to miss dinner with my family. Do I cry and plead with God? That would require real commitment devoid of irony. It feels like a legalistic drag.
We are so easily distracted by entertainment, and so light in our cares, that we are incapable of being serious. When the occasion calls for seriousness, we have nothing. Our tanks are empty. This is why we retreat to political slogans and memes, or partially why. It covers up our lack of seriousness.
It’s awful. God have mercy.
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Please go on
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I posted something, I think from the New Yorker, about Mr. Rogers one time on social media. I said he was a soft man, a malakoi. I did not have much of a reach when I was on social media, but man, a few people, most of whom I know personally, all milennials, got very ticked at me.
All to say that discussing what a man or woman is on social media will start a flame war. When I say don’t do it, I’m jesting. Do it. Better yet, just leave social media. My personal advice, which you can take or leave, I say as I post on the Internet.
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And then there’s modern Christian entertainment. Whether Veggie Tales is any good for small people I don’t know, but I did see God’s Not Dead a few years ago … under duress.
On a more positive note, I have seen a good stage presentation of The Screwtape Letters, and a movie called The Railway Man taught me a lot about what forgiveness looks like, despite being a ‘secular’ film. It starred Colin Firth; it’s about how a British soldier imprisoned by the Japanese during the war came to meet up many years later with one of his jailers.
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I feel this deep in my bones every time I preach. I’m insecure because of my own lack of seriousness…and feel as if I need to apologize to the congregation for any earnestness in the sermon. That because we live in Vanity Fair…
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When I say “we” I mean “me” dear brother. But can I say you’ve been an inspiration to me to do better and shepherd, especially that sermon from the presbytery meeting?
Edit: I think millennials invented ironic detachment from everything. Taking nothing seriously is our mark. Everybody loves to blame Boomers but I think my generation invented ironic detachment.
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