The early church ‘boycotted’ the games.
The Puritans ‘boycotted’ the theatre.
It’s not only quasi Amish fundamentalists who have said enough is enough. No more.
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This is not what any of us are advocating for. Even as pastors who call people to shut off their tvs for the sake of their kids (and their own) souls are not advocating for a Gathardite commune.
History is pretty clear on this - Christians have advocated for abstaining from the world’s entertainment for as long as recorded history. It is all through the Old and New Testament. Church history makes no sense without this abstaining.
But we modern Christians are much too hip for that. We can be discerning. We can teach our children to be discerning. “It’s out there” is your argument - and?
I grew up not being allowed to watch all kinds of stuff, (Care Bears, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Smurfs, to name a few) and when I decided to begin disobeying my parents I deadened my conscience. Movies like Reservoir Dogs did not make me flinch when I first watched them because I had spent years amping up the violence and language. I’m not sure I could get 2 minutes into that movie today. Why? Because I decided years ago to follow the example of my parents, grandparents, and fathers in the faith and just not watch the stuff. Now that my conscience has been repaired it is very sensitive.
Advocating for abstaining doesn’t mean there are no risks to our children. It just means that we are protecting the conscience God gave them as long as possible so that they have the greatest chance to be repulsed by sin when they see it, whether in themselves or in others.
It would be an exceptionally rare thing for a church to formally discipline a parent who lets their kids watch Marvel - but it would be an exceptionally unwise pastor not to say a thing or two to those parents. I think that is what Joseph is saying - just call it like it is, garbage. And tell men and women that it is garbage and don’t give it a warm light saying “if you look below the stinky shell there is some redemptive value here.” There isn’t. Garbage is not worth redeeming. Garbage is fit for the landfill.
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P.S. I don’t want Sanity at the Movies to go away. I want it to be more like The Bookening. Tell me more about movies that aren’t trash, rather than what are popular. Imagine if 90% of what you read for the Bookening came from this months NYT bestseller list. Ugh.
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You post title was " I’m ready to boycott modern entertainment." As I outlined in the previous post, I’m not sure what that means or if that’s even possible. If it possible, we need to figure out what we mean by it.
But the answers to your question is yes … we should start with the assumption that Netflix (or whatever) shows are utter crap and bad for us. If that’s what you were arguing for, I heartily agree. As Joe says, pastors should declare it from the pulpit and privately exhort their parishioners. As Lucas says, people are addicted to this stuff, and they need to be called to repentance.
I’m sorry I postured you as something you weren’t. (Hard to make clear in text form, but that is not sarcasm.)
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We’re moving in that direction.
And I’m only human. If you’d started by saying that, I’m sure you could have got a more measured reply from me. 
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It would be refreshing to have to discipline someone under my care for being too rigid about entertainment. I probably wouldn’t discipline him but, rather, stand back in awe of his self-control (or wonder if he was just a hypocrite). It would be refreshing, too, to see in myself more awareness of and sensitivity to the danger of consumption.
Think about this example from Chrysostom. Now, he struggled with lust and so isolated himself in a cave for several years during his younger days, so we moderns are quick to dismiss him as a legalistic whacko. But our entertainments—or rather, our fierce commitment to those entertainments—have made us into the kind of men who think it is their Christian duty to mock this kind of preaching to the conscience. I find it extremely convicting…
Why do I talk about the theatre? Often if we meet a woman in the marketplace, we are alarmed. But you sit in your upper seat, where there is such an invitation to outrageous behaviour, and see a woman, a prostitute, entering bareheaded and with a complete lack of shame, dressed in golden garments, flirting coquettishly and singing harlots’ songs with seductive tunes, and uttering disgraceful words. She behaves so shamelessly that if you watch her and give consideration, you will bow your head in shame. Do you dare to say you suffer no human reaction? Is your body made of stone? Or iron? I shall not refrain from saying the same things again. Surely you are not a better philosopher than those great and noble men, who were cast down merely by such a sight? Have you not heard what Solomon says: “If someone walks onto a fire of coals, will he not burn his feet? If someone lights a fire in his lap, will he not burn his clothing? It is just the same for the man who goes to a woman that doesn’t belong to him.” For even if you did not have intimate relations with the prostitute, in your lust you coupled with her, and you committed the sin in your mind. And it was not only at that time, but also when the theatre has closed, and the woman has gone away, her image remains in your soul, along with her words, her figure, her looks, her movement, her rhythm, and her distinctive and meretricious tunes; and having suffered countless wounds you go home. Is it not this that leads to the disruption of households? Is it not this that leads to the destruction of temperance, and the break up of marriages? Is it not this that leads to wars and battles, and odious behaviour lacking any reason? For when, saturated with that woman, you return home as her captive, your wife appears more disagreeable, your children more burdensome, and your servants troublesome, and your house superfluous. Your customary concerns seem to annoy you when they relate to managing your necessary business, and everyone who visits is an irritating nuisance.
The cause of this is that you do not return home alone, but keeping the prostitute with you. She does not go visibly and openly, which would have been easier. For your wife could have quickly driven her away. But she is ensconced in your mind and your consciousness, and she lights within you the Babylonian furnace, or rather something much worse. For it is not tow, naphtha [not sure of the words here] and pitch, but her qualities mentioned above that provide fuel for the fire, and everything is upside down. It is just like people suffering from a fever, who have no reason to rebuke those who attend them, but because of the affliction of their illness are unpleasant to everyone, reject their food, insult their doctors, are bad tempered with their families and furious with those who care for them. Just so those who suffer from this dread disease are restless and vexed, and see that woman at every turn. What a terrible state of affairs! The wolf and the lion and other beasts when they are shot at flee the huntsman. But a man, though the most intelligent, when wounded pursues the woman who has wounded him, so as to receive a much more deadly missile and revel in the wound. What is most sickening of all, is that he makes the disease incurable. For if someone does not hate the injury and does not want to be free of it, why would he summon a doctor? Therefore I lament and am in torment, because after receiving such a brutal outrage you return from the theatre, and for the sake of a small pleasure you undergo continual pain. For even before the punishment of Hell, you demand the ultimate penalty here. Tell me, does it not merit the final punishment, to nurture such a desire, to be constantly enflamed, and to carry everywhere the furnace of unnatural love and the condemnation of your own conscience? How will you climb those sacred steps? How will you touch the heavenly table? How will you hear the sermon about temperance, when you are full of such injuries and wounds, and your intellect is the slave of your passion? Why should I say anything else? From what is now going on amongst us it is possible to see the pain of your intellect. Now just as I am speaking these words I can see some people beating their foreheads, and I am very grateful to you for being such a compassionate people. In fact I think many of those who have never sinned are beating themselves, because they suffer pain from their brothers’ wounds. Therefore I lament and grieve, because the devil is tormenting this flock. But if you want to we can quickly block his entrance. How and by what means? If we could see those who are diseased becoming healthy. If we could unfurl the nets of our doctrine and go around seeking those who have been captured by wild beasts, and snatch them from the lion’s throat. Do not say to me “There are only a few who have been taken from the flock.” Even if there were only ten, it would be no ordinary loss. Even if there were five, or two or one. That famous shepherd left behind the ninety nine sheep for the same reason, and ran after the one sheep, and did not return until he brought it back with him, and completed the defective number of one hundred through the restoration of that one which had wandered away. Do not say “It is only one.” But consider, it is a soul, on whose account everything that can be seen came into being: laws, penalties and punishments, and countless wonders, and the infinitely varied works of God. On that soul’s account he did not spare his only-born son. Consider what a price has been paid even for the one man, and do not undervalue his salvation, but go away and bring him back to us, and persuade him no longer to fall into the same mistakes. Then we have a sufficient defence. But if he should not give in, either to our advice or to your entreaties, then I shall thereafter use my power, which God gave us not for destruction but for construction.
Therefore I make this proclamation, in a clear and loud voice, that if anyone after this exhortation and teaching deserts back to the unlawful disgrace of the theatre, I shall not receive him within these precincts, I will not let him share in the sacraments, I will not let him touch the sacred table. Just as shepherds separate the sheep that are afflicted by mange from the healthy sheep, so as to prevent the rest from catching the disease, so I shall act in the same way. For if in ancient times the leper was ordered to sit outside the camp, and even if he was a king, was expelled along with his crown, so much more should we expel from this sacred camp the one who has leprosy in his soul. Just as in the beginning I used exhortation and advice, so now after all this exhortation and teaching it is necessary from now on to deploy exclusion. For it is a year since I entered your city, and I have not ceased from frequent and constant reminders to you about this. But since some have persisted in the putrefaction, well then from now on we should introduce exclusion. If I do not possess an iron sword, at least I have a word which is sharper than iron. If I cannot touch fire, I have a doctrine which is hotter than fire, and can burn more fiercely.
Do not scorn my decree. Although we are worthless and most pitiable, nevertheless we have been granted a status by the grace of God that can achieve these things. Let such people be ejected, so that those of us who are healthy may become more healthy, and those who are sick may restore themselves from serious illness. If you shudder when you hear this decree (and I see that you are all looking gloomy and flinching), let them repent, and the decree will be cancelled. For just as I have received the power to bind, so I have the power to release, and to recall them back. I do not wish to excommunicate our brothers, but to dispel the disgrace of the Church. For as things stand even the pagans will laugh at us, and the Jews will mock us, when we overlook our own members sinning in this way. But in the other case they will greatly praise us, and admire the Church, and respect our laws. So let not a single one of those who remain in this prostitution set foot in the church, but let him be censured by you, and let him be a common enemy. For if anyone, as it is said, will not heed my word set out in my letter, mark him out and do not associate with him. But do this: do not share conversation, or receive him into your home, or share your table, or your going out or going in, or visit the forum with him. In this way we will easily win them back. Just as hunters chase their difficult prey not just from one direction but from all sides, and so drive them into the net, so too shall we herd together those who have been driven into a frenzy, and quickly hurl them into the nets of salvation, we on one side and you on the other. In order that this will happen you too will share our anger, or rather suffer pain on account of God’s laws, and soon retrieve those of the brethren who are diseased in this way and breaking the law, so that you will keep them for ever. For it will be no ordinary charge against you, if you ignore such destruction, but you will be subject to the greatest penalty. In men’s households if one of the servants is caught stealing silver or gold, the thief himself is not the only one punished, but also his conspirators and anyone who did not report him. So much more does the same thing happen in the Church. For at that time God will ask you: “When you saw no silver or gold vessel being robbed from My house, but temperance itself being stolen, and the one who had taken the venerable body, and shared in so great a sacrifice, departing into the place of the devil and committing such sins, how could you keep silent? How did you tolerate it? Why did you not report it to the priest?” And you will be subjected to extreme chastisement. For that reason I too, though it will cause me pain, will not fail to use any of the more grievous penalties. For it is much better that we should suffer pain here and be freed of the coming judgement, rather than use indulgent words here and be punished then alongside you. For it is not safe or without danger for us to tolerate such things in silence. Each of you will give an account of himself. But I am liable to account for the salvation of all of you. For that reason I shall not cease doing and saying everything, even if I have to cause you pain or appear hateful, or tiresome, so that I will be able to stand before that awesome tribunal, without a stain or a blemish or any such thing. May it be with the help of the prayers of the saints that those who have been lost may quickly return, and those who have remained unharmed may advance towards greater propriety and temperance. In this way you may be saved, and we may rejoice, and God may be glorified now and always, and for unending ages upon ages. Amen.
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Fair enough, but your argument against that is in some ways fair and other ways not. It certainly doesn’t mean not going to the grocery store and not seeing billboards. Of course those things exist. I didn’t say I was going to leave the world. I was trying to say I don’t want to be of it. I’ve never bought a tabloid, though I’ve seen them hundreds of times at grocery stores, and at times I’ve been entertained by the covers with pictures of alien babies or other outrageous headlines and claims. And tabloids and gossip rags certainly affect the world and the people I interact with, and thus me, indirectly. But that doesn’t mean I need to buy them (or review them.)
It’s also worth saying that I only brought up Sanity at the Movies and said I’d be willing for it to die to demonstrate how seriously I’m beginning to take this. Because I (hopefully obviously) start from a position of supporting our shows. If so many Christians gave up watching movies that the show wasn’t viable anymore, I wouldn’t shed a tear. Just as I wouldn’t shed a tear if all Christians got off FB and we had no use for the social media share buttons on our site. I’d rather they were unnecessary, just like the (current version of) the show. I personally don’t have much use for either one of them, though I know they serve a purpose.
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Boycotting modern music as well, is that something to be thinking about?
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I’ll admit that my aim was too wide. But I think it’s only fair that you admit in turn that you gave me a target that was all over the place. You didn’t tell me where you planned to draw any lines, so I was left to make (poor, as it turns out) assumptions. Maybe that’s as good a way as any to have this discussion … I’m not really blaming you. I’m just not sure I’m blaming me too much either.
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Certainly. And an area where I probably need to exercise more discretion.
I’ll never forget Lucas exhorting the college group when we were in it concerning the content of the songs we listened to. I can’t remember what song it was, but one that I know by heart is pure poison:
The Way by Fastball
They made up their minds
And they started packing
They left before the sun came up that day
An exit to eternal summer slacking
But where were they going without ever knowing the wayThey drank up the wine
And they got to talking
They now had more important things to say
And when the car broke down
They started walking
Where were they going without ever knowing the wayAnyone can see the road that they walk on is paved in gold
And it’s always summer
They’ll never get cold
They’ll never get hungry
They’ll never get old and gray
You can see their shadows wandering off somewhere
They won’t make it home
But they really don’t care
They wanted the highway
They’re happier there todayTheir children woke up
And they couldn’t find 'em
They left before the sun came up that day
They just drove off and left it all behind 'em
Leaving it all behind
But where were they going without ever knowing the way?Anyone can see the road that they walk on is paved in gold
And it’s always summer
They’ll never get cold
They’ll never get hungry
They’ll never get old and gray
You can see their shadows wandering off somewhere
They won’t make it home
But they really don’t care
They wanted the highway
They’re happier there todayAnyone can see the road that they walk on is paved in gold
And it’s always summer
They’ll never get cold
They’ll never get hungry
They’ll never get old and gray
You can see their shadows wandering off somewhere
They won’t make it home
But they really don’t care
They wanted the highway
They’re happier there today
Today…
How can anybody listen to this song without crying at the wickedness that we have given ourselves to as a nation? The hatred and rejection of all responsibility is palpable. And it’s a siren song to us.
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If this thread had been, let’s burn all modern music, I would have said I love it all. And burn it please. I don’t think we’ve begun to wrap our heads around how attractive and poisonous a song like that is.
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I’m thinking about my Chrysostom post above… We undervalue godly asceticism. Evangelicals and reconstructionists categorically despise it, most especially because they have their eyes set primarily on taking the culture; they have to supply the substitute. I read the Reformers and the Puritans, and they avoid the trappings of asceticism without throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I suppose we’ve abandoned it because the cost of preaching it would be too high (did you notice some of Chrysostom’s asides in the quote?). I mean, what pastor would be so audacious as to call the people of his church to pursue godliness by giving up those things that fuel their jealousy and resentment (Facebook), satisfy their thirst for gossip (Twitter), and stoke their lust and violence (Hollywood).
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I’m interested in learning more about your Reformed Amish group. Do you have a brochure you can send me?
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Reformed Amish Group (RAG for short) is a pretty exclusive club, but we are open to new members right now. I’d hand your a brochure with some of our literature, but we banned literature a long time ago.
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The furniture is gonna be awesome.
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Very good thoughts and conversation here.
Thank you Joseph for bringing this up. I’m also leaning to your side.
I think somebody alluded to it before: I find myself very often thinking “Maybe they weren’t that wrong about it back then”. With “they” I would refer to spiritual fathers and mothers back in the 80s when I grew up about the “the world”.
I remember my grandmother sitting next to me asking about that I was reading. I showed her my “book”, a hard cover comic book with Superman, Batman and more, titled “The Legend of the Superheroes”. She said “Jesus is the only one, he isn’t a superhero and no legend, but truth. Couldn’t you read some biographies of men of faith?” There was no “entertainment” in her life, just work, caring for her grandchildren, reading and going to church.
Another hint could be: In the Old Testament, the highest punishment for Israel was dispersion, being scattered among the nations. The opposite was living together as a nation, composed, everything in a certain order (tribes, families, land ownership, yearly feasts etc). The German word for scattering, dispersal is “Zerstreuung”. This word has also the meaning of distraction. And very often that’s what we want from entertainment: being distracted from everything else. Maybe that’s not a good thing, maybe we as individuals and communities should look to be built up, composed, in order, concentrated.
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Unsure about “tow” but naphtha almost certainly refers to a flammable chemical that is used in napalm.
Thanks for the text from Chrysostom. Somewhat reminiscent of Augustine in the effects of the theater.
I’ve never considered myself a big TV watcher but I used to watch it a lot more than today. I was always looking for the next “great” show. But I got convicted of the way I thought of the women on some of the shows. These weren’t pornographic; they were shows on broadcast television.
So I turned it off. I watch very little non-sports related programming now. If you take out movie night with the kids and Sunday night x-files re-runs (a weird hobby, I agree) and Jeopardy (which I recently gave up), then there’s very little.
The effect was almost instant. My wife became more beautiful overnight. I’d been feeding myself a steady - yet false - diet of what beauty was and she didn’t always measure up. I say this to my shame, but also as a warning and exhortation. We should turn it off. We don’t need it.
I’m not ready to go full @jtbayly yet, but maybe with time… I don’t know. With MLB going woke, maybe that will hasten my move. (Mostly I’m a baseball listener though. Such a relaxing time - sitting on the back porch in the evening as the sun is going down listening to the Braves… but digress).
NOTE: Edited for spelling correction.
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I wonder if one cannot truly discern the value (or lack of value) of modern entertainment until one has spent enough time away from it so that one can see with fresh eyes.
Like most children of the 70s, I binge-watched television. But in my mid-20’s I entirely gave up watching TV. After several years away from it, anytime I did happen to see a TV on, I came away with the strong impression that sitcoms, news, etc. were simultaneously boring and stupid and yet very attention-grabbing. I didn’t like the feeling.
I also was not discerning about movies as a young adult but didn’t see many as I grew older since I didn’t have a VCR/DVD player and didn’t go to the theater much. And when home streaming became a thing, I still didn’t watch much because I was too busy, and when I did watch something, I usually chose old stuff that was well-recommended to get the most out of the time spent.
I never tried to be ascetic, but as with television, I came to the point where I couldn’t enjoy most modern entertainment because it seemed either too stupid, too sentimental, too sensational, too anachronistic, or too earnestly espousing of contemporary moral platitudes. I won’t say I’ve become especially spiritually-minded; probably I had developed highbrow tastes whereas pretty much anything Netflix or Hollywood puts out will be middlebrow at best.
My wife and I generally steer clear of stuff that has violence and sex/nudity, but occasionally something gets through, and I find myself put off by it in a way that wouldn’t have happened to my younger self. For example, I am much less used to seeing violence now than I was even as an older child, and I respond with a feeling of horror rather than jadedness. And when it comes to sex/nudity, I get the uncomfortable feeling like I am visiting someone’s house, got the doors mixed up, and inadvertently walked in on people dressing or having an intimate moment. And it’s very clear to me that both the violence and sex/nudity were not necessary to convey the story but instead are added to satisfy base desires. And I recognize that I have those base desires, too.
I didn’t get to this point because I was especially spiritual or ascetic, but I simply spent enough time away from modern entertainment to get it purged from my system so I could see it in a new light. That’s something I recommend for everyone.
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This song sounds very like a section in The Odyssey in which Odysseus (Ulysses) meets a group of people who have shrugged off all responsibility:
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My 5 year old just now: “Daddy, is there still no more Chip and Lance?”
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