151. Prince Caspian

[per.ardua (Kelly Garden)]

Just doing what @bschasteen said we could do!

[Joel (Joel Norris)]

@per.ardua

The odd thing about Gandalf not dealing with Saruman is that he’d spent centuries caring for the people of middle earth- he was wise and far-seeing- he loved the shire very much- he understood Saruman’s remaining power and his wickedness- and he did nothing. That doesn’t ring true to me.

That you write this leads me to guess that you are unaccustomed to exercising authority, which may indeed be the case if you are young and your children are young.

As I said before, Gandalf’s authority was ministerial rather than magisterial. He was sent from across the Sea not to oppose Sauron by means of his own power but rather to encourage and support others to oppose Sauron using their power. Gandalf did nothing about Saruman not because he didn’t care but instead because the hobbits had “grown up” and were now able to address Saruman’s wickedness and remaining power on their own. Gandalf even tells the hobbits that his work in Middle-Earth is now over but what they have learned through their adventures has equipped them sufficiently to deal with the problems they will find in the Shire. And that is my goal as a father – not to remedy every injustice that my children face but to equip them with the strength and wisdom to deal with injustice on their own.

@per.ardua

In any case , my point, at bottom, is that Tolkien was wrong to write his book this way. His “mercy” to these wicked characters is actually injustice and violence towards the righteous and innocent. It’s a little strange to me that this should be so, because I find the book to be excellent in most other respects, and I didn’t expect him to be so wrong on this- it’s quite a glaring error.

One of the strongest themes throughout LOTR is how one can oppose evil without become evil oneself. The answer is not to abdicate power – that is the route of Tom Bombadil – but rather not to take up the tools of the Enemy. Most obviously, this is the Ring, but in a more general sense it is not to let the ends justify the means, or to reach beyond the limits of one’s authority for the purpose of doing good. Sam asks Galadriel to take the Ring so she can use its powers to stop injustice, and she wisely replies that is where it would start but not where it would end. And I think there is abundant evidence throughout human history that those who dispense with constraints on power so that wickedness can be more easily punished end up doing more evil in the long run. Tolkien’s heroes extend mercy to wicked characters because to do otherwise would set the heroes on the path towards evil.

Now it is true that in our day there are many who hide behind limits on authority and falsely use rules and procedures an excuse not to address injustice, but let us not read this into LOTR. And when we feel rage that no one is addressing obvious wickedness and injustice in the world, at bottom are we not desiring that God would bring forth the final judgment? If you think that Tolkien’s heroes are committing injustice and violence towards the righteous and innocent because they extend mercy to the wicked, what do you think about God in the real world?

[jtbayly (Joseph Bayly)]

My son Tate says that GA Henty is better than Lewis. Quite disgusted with my report that you dissed Henty, @bschasteen. I didn’t want you to be disappointed, since you were expecting to get people mad with that statement, so I’ve reproduced his thoughts below:

Henty is better because he has much more exciting stories.

About something that actually happened.

More realistic. Not all the characters are carefully protected and preserved. Some have their arms hacked off. And that seems more realistic. The good guy doesn’t always win.

His stories give you a lot of information about the time that it’s taking place, like the Middle Ages, but with a good story so it’s not boring.

Not that CS Lewis is a bad author, of course.

Henty uses a lot of old English and bigger words. That makes it better, character wise, because the characters actually seem like they’re from that time.

He wonders how many of you have read 3 or 4 books by G.A. Henty. His favorite is Wolf the Saxon.

But I’ll also add that he was so bored with Dragon and the Raven (Days of along Alfred) that he didn’t even finish it. He didn’t quit reading any of the Narnia books. I pressed him on this, and he said that Lewis is easier to keep reading, but Henty has more for you.

So this almost 11yo boy that did CC and is now in 5th grade at a classical Christian school is meeting all your bad expectations. Lol.

[hhtuck (Jay Tuck)]

Just reading this morning and thought of Lucy:
Ecclesiastes 7:21–22 (ESV): Do not take to heart all the things that people say, lest you hear your servant cursing you. Your heart knows that many times you yourself have cursed others.

[nathanalberson (Nathan)]

That’s a great section.